Hacker News Re-Imagined

Update to YouTube Dislike Counts

  • 1439 points
  • β€’ 17 days ago

  • @minimaxir
  • Created a post

Update to YouTube Dislike Counts


@oleglustenko β€’ 17 days

Replying to @minimaxir πŸŽ™

Well it seems as a social group we must show the power of our union.

So let's report this official announcement!

Click 3 dot -> Report Abuse -> Submit Report.

Maybe Hacker News effect could change it! Yes we can!

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@joshsyn β€’ 17 days

Bye bye youtube. Wokeism ruining everything.

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@rpz β€’ 16 days

Navigate to the cdc's youtube channel and click through their recent videos, most of them have more dislikes than likes, especially if the video is related to the covid vaccines.

Search "covid vaccine" and have a look through those as well. Plenty of them have many more dislikes than likes, especially if the video is about mandates and or from MSM.

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@canbus β€’ 16 days

Cool, now I can't dislike a video, instead I'll just commment "this video sucks" on every video that I don't find useful.

Surely this change doesn't solve anything?

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@VanillaCafe β€’ 17 days

Hilarious the visceral response here to the apparent and inevitable decline of YouTube content quality with the removal of a dislike count -- when Hacker News itself doesn't show a down vote count nor even a down vote button for a large portion of its population.

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@ameyv β€’ 16 days

For me dislike speaks volumes. Googles reasoning seems to misguide people to drive more ads. Plain simple and effective. Decision to protect content creator masquerading as earn more at the expense people times. Well now we need to create new Chrome addon something for this shit.

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@rStar β€’ 16 days

this is obviously so advertisers don’t have to deal with ratio’d videos. advertisers like phizer who pay for content on all advertising platforms, and who pay for content like rachel maddow, tucker carlson and meet the press. that content must be seen as legitimate by users who don’t already know that it isn’t. it’s mind control, and it’s at the behest of the monied interests so good luck with your toddlers all you parents. as someone who escaped/survived a cult i figured out a way around mind control, but that’s beyond the ability of most people. I’m Glad I Don’t Have Kids.

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@inChargeOfIT β€’ 17 days

The like to dislike ratio on their video is exactly why we need to see the counts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxOuG8jMIgI

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@recursivedoubts β€’ 17 days

> We’ve also heard directly from smaller creators, and those just getting started with their YouTube channel, that they are unfairly targeted by dislike attacks.

ah yes, google looking out for the little folks...

someday, a technical solution like not allowing downvotes until a channel gets so many views or subscribers may be feasible, but until then, this will have to suffice

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@OOPMan β€’ 17 days

I'm sure all the advertisers will be very happy when their ads for garbage content get downvoted.

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@cblconfederate β€’ 17 days

The more serious problem is when organized mobs , which may be politically motivated and even organized by oppressive states, use the report button to flag videos as inappropriate, which , as i understand, do not appear in recommendations and other listings. And youtube is very happy to remove those.

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@crmd β€’ 17 days

It’s not clear from the article, and the linked manage your recommendations page, if and how dislikes affect the recommendation algorithm.

I want the dislike button to send a negative signal to the recommendation algorithm, but it seems to act more like an elevator door close placebo button. [0]

[0] https://www.quora.com/Does-the-close-door-button-in-U-S-elev...

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@systemvoltage β€’ 17 days

This kills YT for me. I use ratings-preview extension to tell me if the video is worth watching. I can't imagine using YT without it.

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@da39a3ee β€’ 16 days

I'm confused. How do you judge the results of an election between two candidates if you know the number of votes cast for candidate A, but not the total number of votes?

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@azth β€’ 16 days

Ah, they want to create a "safe and inclusive space", so all is good /s

What's this world coming to?

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@Covzire β€’ 17 days

First it was the complete corporate takeover of their search algorithm in the last few years, now they're removing the final way that users can express displeasure from political organizations and content creators.

This is yet another nail in the coffin of Youtube, it's almost ready to go into the ground as Rumble and Odysee take off and Youtube slides into corporate/censorious irrelevance.

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@capybara_2020 β€’ 17 days

What about cases where the dislikes are against a gov figure and the count gives you confidence in numbers. Plus now authoritarian governments get to serve out even more propaganda talking about videos that are liked and the opposition has no way to see that the opposite also happens.

So the opposition grows even more silent. Afraid to act because it might lead to negative repercussions and there is no scale of the dislike for a propaganda piece.

Not to be conspiratorial but after Facebook's reaction to propaganda from certain parties in countries that are not America. It feels like Youtube is bowing to pressure but hiding it behind a "helping small creator" facade.

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@coolso β€’ 17 days

Gillette / Proctor & Gamble are having a mega celebration today.

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@LanceH β€’ 16 days

The infuriating thing is they don't even address the loss of the count as a tool to identify crap videos.

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@mach1ne β€’ 17 days

Google must have done A/B testing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they mentioned an increase in total consumption in the article.

If they did not mention it, the test results were likely not promising, meaning that implementing the move regardless is motivated by something else than an increase in ad revenue.

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@DonHopkins β€’ 17 days

The more often a user dislikes videos, the less it should count.

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@nobody0 β€’ 17 days

hidden negativity is depressing.

"Sans la libertΓ© de blΓ’mer, il n'est point d'Γ©loge flatteur"

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@AnonC β€’ 16 days

This seems one sided. Why not hide the β€œlike” count too and make both like and dislike counts visible only to the creators while using the individual action of each viewer for recommendations?

I don’t understand why a dislike brigade could be harmful but a like brigade couldn’t be (like propaganda and/or misinformation). They seem to have considered only the impact on creators, who are a small percentage of the population, and not the impact on susceptible viewers, who are much larger in number.

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@AtNightWeCode β€’ 17 days

So funny that a lot people still tries to pass down votes or dislikes as something essential. It is already more or less proven that it does not work the way it is sold in many contexts.

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@unpopularopp β€’ 17 days

>we believe this is the right thing to do for our platform, and to help create an inclusive and respectful environment

I don't even know what does that mean. Just cringe

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@aww β€’ 16 days

I have never ever looked at the dislike counts to judge a video. I am baffled by most of the top comments here, that express frustration or outright anger about this. I don't think like counts are relevant to me either. When I consume YouTube (and I have a premium membership which I am happy with) I either know the creator well or I have to trust the search and recommendation algorithms to give me good content for my current interest. I don't find it hard to skim a video and judge for myself if it is worth my time. I'm betting I'm part of the silent majority on this.

You can interpret these like and dislike interactions in two ways: in absolute terms or in personal terms. "Is this video good?" or "Is this video good for me right now?" We can debate what most users are trying to express* or if they are brigading, but it is mostly irrelevant. As soon as the platform stops showing everybody the same videos or at least random videos and it starts recommending specific videos to specific users then like/dislike interactions are a function of how well the algorithm is working, not some absolute measure of sentiment. Dislikes just indicate that the video was recommended to the wrong people. Netflix doesn't show the number of likes and dislikes and I haven't heard of anyone demanding that this change.

* The label "like" certainly suggests a personal judgment. On the other hand, the like/dislike placement and other feedback options suggest an absolute judgement. When I have (very rarely) used the dislike button it was more about a bad recommendation. Often the video wasn't bad in any absolute sense. In my experience I have to go looking for videos I truly dislike in some absolute sense. YouTube does occasionally ask me to rate a recommendation and there is a "Not Interested" option which are alternatives that are even more explicitly about recommendations. Unfortunately these are only offered before you even try to watch a video or if you are very intentional about returning to your recommendations feed and finding "Not Interested" in the three dots menu.

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@joemaller1 β€’ 17 days

RIP Neutral Response.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

A brilliant example of very-large-scale spontaneous cooperation: 12 years and 10.4M views, and the like/dislike ratio has been at equilibrium the whole time.

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@deadalus β€’ 17 days

Youtube Alternatives :

Centralized : Dailymotion, Bitchute, Rumble, DTube, Vimeo, Vidlii, DLive, Triller, Gab TV

Decentralized : Odysee(LBRY), Peertube

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@gyosifov β€’ 17 days

A little experiment: on a limited sample of random videos, it seems like around 1 of 30 people watching will use the like/dislike button. Seeing that a video with 3.6 mil views that has only 9.5k likes would give you a rough estimation of how many people disliked it. Is there a real study on the subject? It seems like it could be used as some sort of heuristic if there is nothing better.

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@supernintendo β€’ 17 days

Don’t blame YouTube for this, blame the hordes of reactionary assholes who brigade videos with dislikes, trolling and hate comments because they disagree with someone’s personal identity, political views, past Internet drama, or whatever reason they can find to express some grievance against someone they don’t know. Most YouTube users (and people on the Internet in general) do not conduct themselves respectfully or demonstrate any sort of intellectual curiosity when engaging with these sorts of feedback mechanisms. They just want to make other people feel bad so they can feel morally superior with their useless arguments that do nothing but waste disk space and bandwidth on your server.

If you’re building a platform that allows user engagement, you do not want the equivalent of the YouTube comments section on your platform. Do not build features for anonymous posters or allow open, unmoderated discussion. Your users will destroy the thing you spent all of your time and money building, and they’ll spit in your face here on Hacker News if you ever try to do anything to salvage it.

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@geuis β€’ 17 days

Another reason this is a terrible idea:

Video creators have always been able to disable the upvote/downvote ratios and comments.

Every single time I have encountered a video where the counts have been disabled by the creator, it’s because the video has something objectively wrong with it. It’s inaccurate, misleading, poor quality, offensive, or some has some other generally negative attribute.

This happens less so with comments being disabled. Videos with high up to down vote ratios but with disabled comments are usually because the creator is being attacked by trolls. These videos are usually pretty interesting to watch.

So yeah this is an incredibly short sighted change and is removing an important quality signal to viewers.

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@silent_cal β€’ 17 days

I guess we are not allowed to dislike President Poopy Pants and Comrade Kamala

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@cs702 β€’ 16 days

dang -- have you guys experimented with not graying out downvoted comments?

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@dang β€’ 17 days


@penjelly β€’ 17 days

wow even developers lose access to this data. i cant say om thrilled with this. "for our platform" seems so odd when youtube is by far the most popular streaming video website.

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@buhd β€’ 16 days

The true tragedy in all of this is that the Neutral Response will no longer be True Neutral: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

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@phatfish β€’ 17 days

Liking is overloaded, you "like" a video and it also adds it to your favourites. Which if public could be a reason not to "like".

Dislike has no other effect that I am aware of. For this reason it was always broken as far as I'm concerned.

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@canjobear β€’ 17 days

My experience is that lots of dislikes signals a video which is not what it is claimed to be. For example a video that advertises itself as relaxing sleep music and halfway through you suddenly hear a loud voice screaming "AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA!!!"

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@Richard_Kayala β€’ 16 days

Holy shit, who even asked for this? A bunch of woke adult cry babies who are concerned about hurting people's feelings? Who want to dodge criticism at every turn? Hmmm... what political leaning could they have? I wonder what kind of ideology this favors.... perhaps a certain belief that preaches that one sex is equal to another whilst doing everything they can to harm one of the sides and prevent them from speaking out?

Also if YT really did care about their creators, how about they stop allowing hate raids to occur? People mass dislike and report a video when it hurts their feelings and this is more detrimental to creators since not only does the creator get hit with the same impact as the dislike button, their livelihoods also get threatened.

Literally a bucket of marketing and 0 impact.

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@ghalvatzakis β€’ 17 days

Now they can successfully release this youtube rewind video that everyone disliked!

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@hstan4 β€’ 17 days

> Creators: You’ll still be able to find your exact dislike counts in YouTube Studio for each video–only if you’d like to.

What creator that wants to produce high quality content wouldn’t want to see how their videos are performing? Total lunacy. All this in response to β€œdislike attacks” which are likely extremely uncommon.

> it’s an important step to reduce behavior that aims to silence and harass creators

Can someone legitimately get behind the fact that pushing a button that says you dislike the content is silencing or harassing the creator? If they had targeted specific comments that would maybe make sense but literally by pushing a button this is the case?

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@aprinsen β€’ 16 days

Floored and pleased by this. A social media company making a real attempt to curb harassment by re-examining fundamental features. Obviously there's more these companies could do, but this feels significant.

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@dongcarl β€’ 17 days

A moment of silence for "Neutral Response", which, after 12 years and 10M views has still maintained a 50/50 like-to-dislike ratio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

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@supperburg β€’ 17 days

This is terrible. The dislikes are often a source of ground truth and sometimes even comfort. Like when Gillette created an advertising campaign that promoted the idea of male original sin, the idea that men are intrinsically bad. Seeing that video in the wild might make you feel crazy but seeing that I was not alone in how I felt about that commercial made me feel like I wasn’t crazy.

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@1270018080 β€’ 17 days

Subscriber count is unfettered capitalism

The dislike button is for the people

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@passivate β€’ 13 days

>Earlier this year, we experimented with the dislike count to see whether or not changes could help better protect creators from harassment, and reduce dislike attacks

I'd like to see the actual data. What metric was used to determine whether or not this change resulted in '[..] better protect creators from harassment'? Hopefully it wasn't something weak like opinion polls.

A data oriented company not sharing data from a scientific experiment makes me suspicious.

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@mindcrime β€’ 17 days

It's funny how differently people react to things. I look at this and think "there is nothing about Youtube that I find more useless than the dislike count, and I think this probably - on balance - a Good Thing." Everybody else seems to think it's an attack on the fundamental essence of all that is Right, Good, and Just in our universe. Weird... I never would have expected so much consternation about a dislike count.

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@vgb2k18 β€’ 17 days

YouTube Rewind <--- an annual video event with some of the highest dislike counts in the history of the platform. I feel like the timing on YouTube's decision here is suspiciously convenient.

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@nitwit005 β€’ 17 days

It seems like YouTube just shuts off any interaction whenever a problem crops up. The "fix" for issues with comments on children's videos was to disable all comments on the videos.

Which works, I suppose, but if you take it to it's logical conclusion we'll end up with there simply being no user interaction at all.

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@blunte β€’ 17 days

For the viewers (us), this is the opposite of what they should do. For us, they should be showing the up/down count ratio on the video preview link itself so we could easily identify the garbage videos without even having to click on them.

Of course this would reduce the amount of ads and pages they would serve to users, so it's in their interest to do everything they can to prevent users from being warned of time-wasting content.

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@shreyshnaccount β€’ 17 days

Cuz they dont want rewind to becone the most hated video again

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@streamofdigits β€’ 16 days

Its a simplistic solution to a serious problem that plagues all social platforms. If anything we need more qualifiers not fewer: The like/dislike choice is creating an artificial binarity that doesn't exist in real life.

Organized like/dislike campaigns motivated by whatever commercial or political or other reasons are facilitated by a sense of impunity and unaccountability.

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@crawsome β€’ 13 days

less content more ads, CONSUME

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@nickjj β€’ 17 days

Bummer. I often use like vs dislike ratios as a gauge on whether a video is worth watching. If I see a 3,000 up / 48 down video on a topic I'm interested in there's a really good chance the video is great.

I'm a small time creator (~13.5k subs) and don't care at all about upvotes or downvotes being public. There's only been a handful of videos out of hundreds that received more downvotes than expected because the video was posted on a place out of my control and folks didn't like that. Almost always if a video naturally gets downvoted it's because you either released something bad or unrelated to what your channel normally expects.

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@oblak β€’ 17 days

Can't even remember the last time I looked at likes/dislikes of any video I watched. Play count stopped having meaning (to me) at least a decade ago.

That said, a couple of years ago I somehow ended up on a channel with literally hundreds of videos. I swear, the average view count of this woman's session was way below one. I just wonder how is that even possible. Spent about 10 minutes clicking on random videos and well, it was sad. Real sad. I wonder if she would've kept going if numbers were hidden. I think she would've bailed long time ago.

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@blumomo β€’ 16 days

Who is afraid of what and why?

Here's my view: Removing down voting is FAANG's (=big corps) and MSM's reaction of many users down voting (in my eyes rightfully so) videos from public institutions who spread nothing else than propaganda. FAANG and MSM are now afraid that this sentiment contaminates other citizens.

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@bigyellow β€’ 17 days

Predicable after seeing downvote ratios on White House and other "official" channels. Another step closer to dystopia. Fuck YouTube.

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@entaroadun123 β€’ 17 days

Ha... They pretend like this affects small creators when really it’s to prevent people from voicing dissent with state propaganda.

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@dna_polymerase β€’ 17 days

I remember using dislike counts to identify math tutorials of low quality, wrong information. Now that's gone for future generations. Thanks YouTube.

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@Nition β€’ 17 days

I went back to look at when they first changed from star ratings to like/dislike, and it seems like they were thinking about going even further and removing the dislike option entirely even back then.

They made some comments[1] before that change:

> Seems like when it comes to ratings it's pretty much all or nothing. Great videos prompt action; anything less prompts indifference. Thus, the ratings system is primarily being used as a seal of approval, not as an editorial indicator of what the community thinks about a video. Rating a video joins favoriting and sharing as a way to tell the world that this is something you love.

> We're glad there are so many awesome videos on YouTube, but all of this begs the question: if the majority of videos are getting five stars, how useful is this system really? Would a thumbs up/thumbs down be more effective, or does favoriting do the trick of declaring your love for a video?

[1]https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/five-stars-dominate-rat...

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@calimac β€’ 16 days


@austincheney β€’ 17 days

From reading the other comments I am clearly in the minority here, but this is absolutely the right way to go. It’s the first and most simple means of destroying echo chamber bombing.

Visibility of voting only reinforces agreement ahead of any independent consideration.

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@JadoJodo β€’ 17 days

> Our experiment data confirmed that this behavior does occur at a higher proportion on smaller channels.

Why not simply hide the vote count (either way) until a certain threshold of votes is reached? This could be set higher for channels that are just starting out. Below a certain vote count, I personally don’t see much value anyway.

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@fartcannon β€’ 16 days

Unfortunately, like Facebook before it, this change signals to me that YouTube is for an older generation now and is on its way to being irrelevant in the future. It was a nice ride, though.

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@varelse β€’ 17 days

Sounds like a call to duty to hit the dislike button if even slightly inclined to do so going forward.

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@wolpoli β€’ 17 days

> We understand that some of you have used dislikes to help decide whether or not to watch a video–still, we believe this is the right thing to do for our platform, and to help create an inclusive and respectful environment where creators have the opportunity to succeed and feel safe to express themselves.

It's very sad that this is the only instance in the announcement where they mention viewers, and the reasons cited has nothing to do with viewers' interest.

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@lindwhi β€’ 15 days

This helps if the video is just a victim of a dislike bandwagon. Some videos are quite interesting, yet just because people saw many dislikes, they also tend to press the dislike button.

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@oleglustenko β€’ 17 days

To show power of our Hacker News community and the power of union.

I suggest to report the post at Google page.

So click 3 dot button -> Report Abuse -> Submit Report.

These small 3 steps can show the power of our will! Yes we can!

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@qwerty456127 β€’ 17 days

Dislikes should be shown for government-affiliated political videos, e.g. speeches of politicians.

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@rullelito β€’ 16 days

In 10 years we will have forgotten that internet was mostly bidirectional.

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@TeeMassive β€’ 17 days

Google is currently undergoing antitrust legislation proceedings against them.

YouTube has removed dislikes from White House videos in the past: https://cnnbc.com/youtube-deleted-2-5-million-dislikes-from-...

Connect the dots.

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@dartharva β€’ 17 days

If they are so against brigading, why not remove Like counts as well?

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@alexeiz β€’ 17 days

I guess Brandon must be getting too many dislikes.

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@otrahuevada β€’ 17 days

I mean, if a multi-month, google-scale experiment says it helps, it... probably does? But I'd personally like to see more get done to the robot likes/dislikes thing than this.

You know, that thing where a video has 100 views but 150 likes+dislikes? It's simply too annoying to me.

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@trts β€’ 17 days

The dislike button on YouTube videos is one of the few remaining signals that what you are seeing is propaganda.

It hadn't occurred to me that this would happen (although it seems obvious) and it is unexpectedly frightening to me.

I suppose the fallback will be videos with comments enabled, where people can 'like' a comment who is saying something common sense and reasonable in response to the content.

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@the42thdoctor β€’ 17 days

It's sad to pay for a service, Youtube Premium, and see they pulling shit like this without no clear competitor to switch to.

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@mike741 β€’ 17 days

Since it's about to be hidden and unverifiable: Susan Wojcicki's "Freedom of Expression Award" (sponsored by Youtube) video currently has 227 upvotes, 56000 downvotes, and 185000 views. That's a 99.6% downvote ratio.

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@octocop β€’ 17 days

Perfect change that just so happen to help out large companies trying to avoid being criticized in the public eye. Just a coincidence that Google put out this change to help the everyday you-tubers receiving harassment online, it probably has nothing to do with large corporations wanting to silence peoples opinions. Lucky I guess

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@eranima β€’ 17 days

It's sad to see Hacker News defending vote brigading. If you're like me and watch a lot of history YouTube videos, it's obvious that this is happening. Watch any video on African history and it's plainly obvious that this is a problem.

The ratio was _never_ a good indication of anything other than a video being targeted. If you believe it was, I can only assume that you agree with the targeting.

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@HappyMans β€’ 17 days

Does there exist a Chrome (or otherwise) plugin that could keep track of its own like/dislike counts and display them on any given page? You could even have your own separate comment threads. Key everything out on video URL. Wouldn’t work on walled gardens, but would 100% on desktop.

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@ncfausti β€’ 17 days

I wonder if Likes / Views is a good proxy for dislikes?

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@unknownOrigin β€’ 17 days

End of the site. There were many changes but this one will kill it in the long run. Aaaanyways, there competitors brewing up. Recently I visited Rumble, thinking "meh, one of these youtube clones again" only to be shocked that plenty of videos seem to be getting hundreds of thousands of views there. Odysee and Bitchute seem to be doing OK too? I don't know. On one hand it's sad to see Youtube go just because of Google disliking (no pun intended) that people can dislike their corporate messaging (rewind... anything biden related etc.), on the other hand Google can go to hell.

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@darkhorn β€’ 17 days

It was one of the best things about YouTube. This is very shitty move. YouTube is going to the next Facebook shit.

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@lenkite β€’ 16 days

Looks like there is a lot of heavy political pressure to remove dislikes. We are now rapidly moving to a post-orwellian society.

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@tmule β€’ 17 days

I’m pretty cynical. There are a number of deeply unpopular progressive causes for which dislikes would dominate likes on YouTube. My sense is that YouTube wants to mask such information. That’s a good way to not reveal the chasm between elite opinion and popular opinion.

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@bagacrap β€’ 17 days

will Google remove ratings under 4 stars from Places to protect new restauranteurs from 2-star attacks?

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@mesozoic β€’ 17 days

Ah follow Facebook's path so you can better brainwash your masses.

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@jarek83 β€’ 17 days

How this is useful to people wanting to watch meaningful content? Like many wannabes post football games highlights that just turn out to be some fake content. I can quickly figure that out by seeing 95% dislike ratio. Now I'll be forced to experience it by myself (and watch ads before it of course)

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@smaryjerry β€’ 17 days

Removing the dislike count is the worst possible thing YouTube could do. Youtube is not just people talking about their day or political content. It is practical content, like how-to videos, and entertainment. When you search how to do something the number one indicator it will be useful or helpful video is the dislikes. This is critical for sifting through all of the garbage videos that don’t work or aren’t related who are just trying to make a buck or get views. Even in entertainment dislikes offers the same feedback, and while it’s not a perfect measure, it absolutely provides a good indicator.

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@kwolff β€’ 17 days

Is there anyway to re-enable this on your own channel?

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@TedShiller β€’ 16 days

Brandon must be pleased

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@pricci β€’ 17 days

> You can apply for an exemption (to have dislike data on non-authenticated calls) as long as you don’t display or share dislike data with end your users.

Peertube/NewPipe + own API key with the exception will be the way to go now.

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@adam12 β€’ 17 days

I'm pretty sure this all started when the Biden campaign started using YouTube back in 2019.

Boycott YouTube.

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@ddingus β€’ 17 days

Hiding the dislike info on POTUS seems important now.

Hiding the dislike info on CNN seems important now.

Public trust in government is low.

Public trust in corporate media is low.

It's been policy to manufacture consent in the US for quite a while now.

Hard to say this move isn't more of the same, and it's equally hard to say it helps more than it hurts too.

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@jeffalo β€’ 17 days

> Those in the experiment could still see and use the public dislike button, but because the count was not visible to them, we found that they were less likely to target a video’s dislike button to drive up the count.

I don't understand this part. So, hiding the dislike count means less people will dislike.

Then what's the point of disliking a video? It provides much less feedback to a creator than just commenting, it's more often used as a signal to other viewers. If it's hidden, there's really no point of including it at all. In fact, why not remove likes too? And while we're at it, let's remove the view count too.

This is a really strange change, and I'm not sure that I'm happy about it.

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@gverrilla β€’ 16 days

Maybe Zuck payed for it? His meta videos had quite a high ratio of dislikes.

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@vlunkr β€’ 17 days

People are weirdly outraged here. Likes/Dislikes on really public platforms like reddit and youtube are just a game, they tell you nothing about the quality of something, only whether it matches the agreed upon view of the core audience. Barely anyone thinks about dislikes on youtube until there's a big event like youtube rewind.

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@asciimov β€’ 17 days

This is a damned shame. I use dislikes to gauge if a video is relevant to the topic at hand.

For example, I like fixing stuff and use Youtube for unfamiliar items. Often videos with a high number of dislikes are Spam (usually a bot reading text from some website), Videos where the person handwaves through the steps, videos where the fix is improper, or videos where the creator spends more time monetizing than working through the problem.

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@solarkraft β€’ 17 days

Oh fuck off.

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@Hermel β€’ 17 days

What a surprise: if you disable a feature, the abuse of that feature is reduced...

For a balanced assessment, you also need to take the destroyed value of disabling the feature into account.

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@randyrand β€’ 17 days

Why not let creators choose?

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@princetman β€’ 17 days

As a complete novice in life in everything that is not Tech, I rely on a lot of how-to videos on YouTube from small unknown creators. Likes and Dislikes ratio is one of the key filter to weed out less helpful or outright misinformed videos. This may be shrewd move for YouTube to boost engagement but at the greater cost of utility and UX. Very disappointing.

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@r5Khe β€’ 17 days

This is sure going to make YouTube a whole lot less useful for gathering information about a subject. I can't tell you how many DIY home improvement and exercise form demonstration videos I've been protected from because a lot of dislikes pointed me to the fact that something is terribly amiss in the content. Who knows how much money those ratios have saved me over the years.

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@skhr0680 β€’ 17 days

This your punishment for disliking the YouTube rewind video!

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@kyle_martin1 β€’ 17 days

Sounds like they're taking "you're not allowed to disagree" from 1984 to heart.

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@Causality1 β€’ 17 days

Oh nice, I was just thinking this morning that YouTube isn't nearly "corporate bullshit" enough. /s

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@hndamien β€’ 17 days

Why not just hide it from accounts that show dislike attacking behaviour? Surely this is trivial to detect from Google AI/Deep Mind?

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@MattGrommes β€’ 17 days

I've never understood why they even have a downvote feature. It's almost always like 10,000 likes to 43 dislikes. What information is that getting across? Even if it were 10k to 1k, that doesn't even indicate anything real because of so many people disliking stuff because the host is a woman or they were told to by some other Youtuber.

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@newbie2020 β€’ 17 days

Lol cause Biden’s videos have so many dislikes . So funny how much Trump and his movement have affected tech policy these last few years.

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@falcor84 β€’ 17 days

Orthogonal to the article itself, I find it interesting how the word "Update" gradually came to be the official corporate-speak for "Cancel".

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@renewiltord β€’ 17 days

The interesting thing about this is that I'm clearly occupying a different demographic for YouTube. Brigading isn't a big deal for the kind of content I watch, but people often upload fake videos. I have an extension that displays the like/dislike ratio on recommended videos and search results and that helps filter out fake uploads.

By fake uploads I mean reuploads that do not contain the actual example. For instance, I might want to watch a Brahmos or Oniks launch (I find the way the missile orients itself very entertaining) and there'll be a bunch of videos which are 'reaction' videos. They'll use a thumbnail of the content but mostly be some guy talking about the content. Or for a football goal, it's some guy recreating it in FIFA. I don't want to watch these things and the dislike bar warns me of the stuff.

This is a pity.

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@eftychis β€’ 17 days

If they are worried about dislike attacks why don't they blind the data with delayed effects?? Like update of a dislike appears days later but you can still see a ratio of likes vs dislikes for the last year or so...

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@cardosof β€’ 17 days

This is bad for us users because we will get less information and won't know what contents are being rejected and what's being accepted. This is good for their ad business department because more users will click on play, incrementing the view count and generating more ad impressions. This is good for their PR/Law departments because famous people and politicians will be less likely to complain about mass rejection.

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@Liwink β€’ 17 days

It makes me curious why HN does not support "dislike". Will "dislike" make HN more informative?

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@crowcode β€’ 17 days

Wildly disappointing but not surprising. The dislike count is the most helpful indicator for users to know if a video is a scam, complete clickbait, a fake tutorial, etc. I'm sure it's also very inconvenient for large media corporations and powerful groups when their videos get disliked into the ground.

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@Drblessing β€’ 16 days

Terrible decision as someone who uses YouTube a lot…high dislike rate is a key signal for creators lying or shenanigans in a video…guess people are going to start leaving more negative comments. Thanks YouTube!

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@bob229 β€’ 17 days

Who cares. YouTube is cancer

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@mensetmanusman β€’ 17 days

Up votes could also arguably be seen as harmful to mental health and the β€˜fear of missing out’ phenomena.

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@u-rate β€’ 16 days

β€žI sm your dislike buttonβ€œ comments shall return

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@omoikane β€’ 17 days

I wonder if they tried a different alternative where anyone can upvote, but only content creators with certain karma (say, 501 upvotes) are allowed to downvote. Some news sites do this and I wonder if things worked out better this way.

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@thenews β€’ 17 days

just in time for youtube rewind, although they did mention they were not going to do it this year

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@Inu β€’ 16 days

Years ago on zeit.de, the online version of the German newspaper, you could sort the user comments by upvotes. But the most upvoted comments often happened to be quite critical of the articles or what might be called the political mainstream. Then at some point the button for sorting by upvotes was removed, and has been absent ever since. I felt somewhat reminded of this sudden disappearence.

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@AHappyCamper β€’ 16 days

AKA: We need to stop a metric that puts Democrats, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris in such a bad (horrible) light. This has nothing to do with content creators or audience. This is all about elections, politics, and most of all Joe Biden/Kamala Harris.

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@josh_today β€’ 17 days

When videos counter to their narrative are disliked… dislike must be hidden. Time to give their algo some fun and massively like random videos

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@beckman466 β€’ 17 days

why isn't YouTube a public utility yet? or forfeit it for stewardship by archive.org. having the power to monopolistically decide on the design and technical choices for billions of people using proprietary/black box tech is absurd.

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@blakewatson β€’ 17 days

I’m gonna miss dislike jokes (eg, "13 people just want to watch the world burn.")

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@EnlightenedBro β€’ 17 days

Time to switch to Rumble, everyone. https://rumble.com/

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@bamboozled β€’ 16 days

Potential useful idea: a third party like / dislike extension?

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@SnoozyBreak β€’ 17 days

On google maps the most informative reviews are the negative ones... even if the ratio is highly biased to 5-star ratings, the few negative ratings usually leak the more honest opinions which help you qualify the positive reviews.

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@flippinburgers β€’ 16 days

With each year the internet becomes less and less about individual voices being heard. Dystopia here we come.

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@Brian_K_White β€’ 17 days

Could someone make an external index and review site for yt videos?

yt doing this is essentially yt putting their thumb on the scale, telling you that their product is good, and hiding anyone saying it's not.

Generally, you must always have an outside party to review and judge a thing, not the thing itself.

Probably yt would try every trademark and copyright legal attack in the book to take down any such site, but it seems obvious that in common sense terms, the only possible way to have reviews of yt videos is for them to be provided by anyone other than any Alphabet property.

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@smolder β€’ 17 days

This is just stupid and their rationale is nonsense. Google demonstrates again how they are bad stewards of the web.

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@nextlevelwizard β€’ 16 days

They should also remove comments at this point.

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@cwkoss β€’ 17 days

Youtube once again siding with IP hoarders, advertisers and propagandists over their audience.

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@blibble β€’ 17 days

that's fine, I'll just use "report" instead to express dislike

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@swayvil β€’ 17 days

A browser plugin that fills in the missing functionality.

Surely that exists.

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@zthrowaway β€’ 17 days

I’m sure the White House videos getting disliked into oblivion influenced this.

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@AcerbicZero β€’ 16 days

Soooo I guess I just write a quick grease monkey script to just show views/upvote ratio?

It’s not ideal as upvote/downvote for filtering trash, but it should still help.

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@louissan β€’ 17 days

I find this pathetic. As if the removal of the "dislike button" helps in any way, shape or form to create a more "inclusive" environment.

This reeks of the silencing of what is perceived as dissident voices, is all.

I've personally never hit a like or dislike button in my life, never will ... but found it interesting as a viewer to see the ratio. Even knowing this ratio is probably at least partially the outcome of bot farms and the like.

Disney, DC Comics and the like must've complained about bad ratings/unfavourable like/dislike ratios I guess..

Let's try and see this as a tangent/bastard child of Newspeak. What better way too have people forget about something than to remove its linguistic manifestation from the dictionary? Same thing here, except people's way of expressing their approval/refusal. Google and the like are literally after the ultimate "macdonaldification" of people - cattle unable to say "NO".

(edit typos :-) )

Have a great day all :-)

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@annadane β€’ 16 days

Hey, Google/Youtube product managers. If you're here, read the comments and see how wrong you are and how much people will detest this change

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@varispeed β€’ 17 days

What's next? Extra views for underrepresented YouTubers? Ad click air drops?

Maybe if Google wants to do something good, they should stop avoiding paying right amount of tax for starters?

How about anti-competitive behaviour?

The fake virtue signalling from big co is nauseating...

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@ryeguy_24 β€’ 17 days

I will miss the ratio:

likes / (likes + dislikes)

I used this quite a lot for determining if a video was decent or not.

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@WriterGuy2021 β€’ 17 days

Stop using YouTube. Support smaller services while you still can. We don't need to keep feeding these monolithic beasts.

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@gwbas1c β€’ 17 days

I very rarely hit dislike; I mainly do it for misinformation or clear manipulation.

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@tristor β€’ 16 days

I don't understand the rationale? I spend a lot of time (probably more than I should) on YouTube, since it's full of interesting videos that teach me new skills. My experience has been that mass dislikes only happens on videos that are 1. bad quality in multiple dimensions 2. false / misinformation 3. politically contentious. For most videos, they have a positive like/dislike ratio, and you can use this as a strong signal about quality on the topic in the description/title.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that a dislike is "harassment" or an "attack". This really reads to me like Google is upset by the politically contentious videos that do get ratioed, and this is politically motivated on their part. Generally speaking, YouTube content creators trend left on US political issues, but YouTube's audience reflects the mainstream and trends slightly to the right on US political issues, which means that left-leaning politically contentious videos tend to get ratioed, and that includes left-adjacent issues that aren't strictly political but have been politicized.

Either YouTube is a place for creators to put themselves out there and engage with their audiences... or it's another place that is corporately whitewashed to be as inoffensive (and thus uninteresting and shallow) as possible. Historically it's been the former, and I see this as another in a long string of moves by Google to turn it into the latter... despite that being exactly what people fled from when they started spending more hours watching YouTube than they did television. It seems Google doesn't know or doesn't care what their audiences actually want.

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@alex_c β€’ 17 days

This change is very upsetting. Ever since becoming a parent, I've been baffled by a mystery.

I noticed that - unlike most other popular content - children's videos on YouTube almost always have roughly a 2:1 like to dislike ratio no matter what channel or type of content. Why? Where do all the dislikes come from?

Is it from kids mashing touch screens at random? Parents taking what small revenge they can at being subjected to the same songs on repeat thousands of times? Some shady underground power struggle between kids' content creators sabotaging each other?

I always assumed I would eventually find an answer, but now if dislike counts are going away I am unlikely to ever find out. I will probably have to carry this unanswered mystery with me for the rest of my life.

Thanks, YouTube.

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@manuelabeledo β€’ 17 days

People would rather watch whatever validate their biases, and would rarely dislike something that does not. And the engagement algorithm would work towards that.

For those reasons, the dislike button is not going to be a great loss for anyone but those who were using it quite seldomly, and they are a minority.

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@poorjohnmacafee β€’ 17 days

This is not what users want and it's not surprising having now observed multiple rounds of YT censorship campaigns. One way ppl fight back against annoying political narrative videos is to downvote them to the mantle. That also gives everyone solace to know that most everyone else believes the opposite of said political narrative videos. Make no doubt about it, YT and their partners have gotten as political as hell in recent years.

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@crackercrews β€’ 17 days

This is like Amazon letting anyone review a product, but only showing you how many 5-star reviews there are. Completely useless.

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@throwaway2077 β€’ 16 days

the writing was on the wall for a while.

this was probably the final nail in the coffin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDcvPf78g1k

go glimpse it in all its glory before it gets memoryholed

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@bitwize β€’ 17 days

Marvel movies aren't generating the buzz they once were, and Disney is an important YouTube partner that has earnings expectations to met, so... gotta do something about the "review bombing from bigots".

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@kenjackson β€’ 17 days

I'm always surprised at how often dislike is used on YouTube. I don't think I've ever clicked it. I probably should more for clickbait videos, but it just doesn't seem like a big problem otherwise. Like, why do people click dislike on a Justin Bieber video. I'm confident that 95% of those are people that just hate Justin -- but why then even go to the video to watch it? Just to voice your displeasure?

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@frankfrankfrank β€’ 16 days

Well, at least they didn't blame the weather for this. The levels of dishonesty are just rather breathtaking at this point … and really concerning, because nothing at all good ever comes from dishonesty.

Anyone who has paid any attention at all knows exactly why they are doing away with the down vote count and it has nothing really to do with any sham experiment that is post hoc rationalization for a foregone conclusion.

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@Decabytes β€’ 17 days

Take this with a grain of salt, but in one of Devon Nash's videos on YouTube, he mentioned (without a source) that YouTube did a study that looked at likes and dislikes. They tweaked the algorithm based on videos that were heavily liked or disliked, and what they found is that likes and dislikes don't matter (for them). It's all about engagement.

So... People will hate watch someone they don't like, and comment on the video about how stupid that person is. These videos with high engagement end up serving lots of ads, and YouTube makes money either way. So my tinfoil hat is that when YouTube recommends a video, before if I saw the heavy dislike bar I might think, "Why is YouTube recommending this bad video to me?" But with dislikes private, I might just engage with the video and think less about why the algorithm recommended it to me.

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@invalidusernam3 β€’ 17 days

Whether this is good for creators is one thing, but it's definitely bad for viewers. Likes to dislikes is an indicator of the quality of the video, and how well it matches the title/description.

This will fundamentally change what I use YouTube for. If I can't determine the quality of a video without having to waste time watching it, I will just look somewhere else.

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@thread_id β€’ 17 days

Funny thing about that.... I never pay any attention to the likes or dislikes or even the comments. I sample the video and if I like it I watch and if not move on to the next. Can't be even the leaset bit bothered by the social interaction noise. I'm surprised to here that others actually take meaning from it.

So I read through the comments more and many deal with quality of content - for example instructions that are flat out wrong. I viewed a video on how to change spark plugs in Honda 6 cylinder car. The content creator gave the instruction to put dielectric grease right on the tip of the spark plug. I found a comment that pointed out how utterly stupid this was. Yet the comment was pushed lower by many comments praising the contect creator for his helpful video. So I have to conclude that down votes are a usefull tool. Even if they are misused.

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@Maksadbek β€’ 17 days

Didn’t know that exists .youtube domain.

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@nowherebeen β€’ 17 days

I used to not understand why videos had dislikes even when they haven't premiered yet. But then one day, I realized that in order for YouTube to stop recommending me some channels, I had to press the dislike button.

YouTube recommendation is so bad. Even when you aren't interested in something, they keep on showing it until you click on it. For example, I watched a few Squid Game videos a few weeks ago. Suddenly, because Ben Shapiro did a video on Squid Game, it kept on showing me that thumbnail for days.

The algorithm should have realized that his channel was much more about right wing news than Squid Game and shouldn't have shown it every single day on my recommendation. I don't watch any politics on YouTube.

The worst part was if I clicked on the video, it would re-enforce the algorithm that I wanted right wing news. So the only option was to click the dislike button. It feel like I was force to click the button.

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@aijeq β€’ 17 days

Seems obvious:

1. Current administration's videos are downvoted heavily. These likely aren't brigades but rather upset constituents.

2. People don't want videos with low dislikes.

(1) probably has to do with the white house being "in close contact with" social media, to paraphrase Psaki.

(2) almost certainly has to do with ad revenue. Without a dislike count you're forced to watch some nominal amount of the video.

I suppose we all saw this coming when Google bought Youtube. It became obvious after "covid misinformation" became the new way to censor anything and everything the ruling party does not like.

edit: lmao downvotes you practically need a throwaway to post an opinion contrary to the lay masses.

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@xbmcuser β€’ 16 days

I personally rarely vote up or down nor do I notice the voting numbers. So I don't feel this will make a difference to me.

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@vezycash β€’ 17 days

And when people stop hitting the dislike button cos they feel it doesn't count, Youtube would retire the dislike button, citing low usage.

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@oxplot β€’ 17 days

Looks like a very good fit for a ML model to filter out dislikes that are part of an attack based on frequency, age of the video, etc.

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@83457 β€’ 17 days

I wonder if the catalyst was the Nintendo Switch Online Expansion Pack video dislikes. Many said Nintendo wouldn't even notice but maybe they did and advocated for the change.

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@tomc1985 β€’ 17 days

Awesome -- more positivity at gunpoint

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@pricci β€’ 17 days

Let's create a browser extension to record dislikes then!

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@c7DJTLrn β€’ 17 days

Somebody should make an extension that brings back dislikes and comments on videos where they're disabled. Just store it all on a different server but seamlessly integrate it into YouTube.

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@wly_cdgr β€’ 17 days

Dislike

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@grej β€’ 16 days

There is a video on YouTube in which YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki received the Free Expression Award (which were sponsored by YouTube).

At the time of the check I just did, that video currently has 227 upvotes and over 56,000 downvotes, making it the worst ratio’ed video on YouTube I have ever seen.

That incident may have played a role in this decision.

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@resoluteteeth β€’ 17 days

This is really unfortunate. Since pretty much any youtube video will have likes, seeing the corresponding number of dislikes is really the only thing that provides any meaningful information.

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@Brian_K_White β€’ 17 days

If the reason was honestly for the stated reason, then why isn't this feature selectable by creator or even by video?

The stated reason, as ever, is bullshit.

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@nonbirithm β€’ 17 days

My take is that YouTube is intending for this to increase engagement, by removing signals that might push away viewers from consuming more content.

If excessive social media use is correlated with damage to mental health, then framing this as beneficial sounds contradictory. Now that social media platforms have reached a critical mass, they should be judged not just for being toxic and user-hostile, but also for being too effective at accepting and retaining people for excessive amounts of time.

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@kiryin β€’ 17 days

I wonder what likes and dislikes are even for. They don't generate income for channel owners afaik, nor do they affect the recommendation algorithm for users, also afaik. Only views "matter." Especially if the other half gets hidden now, they should just get rid of the whole thing. It doesn't seem to provide anyone with anything, except useless bandwagoning

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@CryptoLich β€’ 17 days

we can complain all we want about this but it's going to change nothing -- we'll get our frustration out here and then comply with whatever they decide to do to further their agenda

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@_nothing β€’ 17 days

> We understand that some of you have used dislikes to help decide whether or not to watch a video – still, we believe this is the right thing to do for our platform

So basically, "We understand that this feature is useful in helping you determine where to spend your time and attention, but we're going to do it anyway because it benefits us."

> and to help create an inclusive and respectful environment where creators have the opportunity to succeed and feel safe to express themselves.

"Because we need our creators to get views and keep making content regardless of whether or not our users think it's worth watching."

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@dvhh β€’ 17 days

I think there is an opportunity here for a browser extension to rate content.

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@RattleyCooper β€’ 15 days

An attempt to hide public opinion regarding certain topics/people.

Because google wants to control public perception, and the entire public conversation about EVERYTHING

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@summerlight β€’ 17 days

As usual, HN users are making lots of interesting assumptions (some comments to a conspiracy level) on the intention here...

But in the reality, there are many smaller creators who is frequently being harassed by trolls (have you heard about those young Chinese patriots trolling over Korean and Japanese channels?) and one of their tool is the dislike button. And creators have been complaining about this for many years, so I would say in fact YT was super lazy on this particular issue, but at least better late than never...

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@godshatter β€’ 17 days

I'm usually of the opinion that the more information the better, but I also think that the dislike/downvote button adds a lot to the toxicity levels, mainly for comments. It's much better for a group to get excited about something and over-like it than for a group to get angry about something and over-dislike it.

So I guess I'd rather see the dislike button be removed more than I would like to use that information to inform me about the video in question. I don't tend to even look at how many likes vs. dislikes something has, anyway. My tastes are different enough from the norm that it isn't really that helpful of a statistic for me.

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@beezischillin β€’ 17 days

It's interesting that the Internet took the YouTube Rewind dislike thing as a win, meanwhile YouTube themselves took it as an opportunity to learn about the negative side effects of their users' free will.

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@artdigital β€’ 16 days

So I have never clicked a like nor dislike button on YouTube after they switched from stars to the thumbs. I always wondered who actually puts in the extra few seconds to do so, but I'd guess it's people that have a very strong opinion.

Especially the "Don't forget to smash that like button below" became so much noise that it's getting auto-filtered in my head

This change feels like the next step of positioning YouTube as something like a TV alternative, encouraging more long-form content and series over one-off videos.

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@xtat β€’ 17 days

Youtube is over

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@amznbyebyebye β€’ 17 days

We could all use a little more β€œthinking for yourself” in this age or social media. I laid the move. The dislike button should be used to share what I dislike and use that genuinely to recommend content that I will like. Seeing the number only biases me one way or the other and doesn’t even give me the opportunity to consider how I really feel in the first place.

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@Tucanix β€’ 16 days

This is a terrible decision. It also feels very undemocratic and a way to undermine trust and hide public opinion on a topic. Like a company made a screw up, before it was easy to see public opinion on the matter, but this just allows companies to hide everything, it feels like this decision was only made for companies and people with a controversial opinion like the feminist movement or a racist right wing movement.

I mean read the text "dislike attacks", this reads deeply like some disgruntled femminist who's community keeps getting dislikes because they have extremely controversial opinions. The femminist/SJW community really dislikes democracy and want more censorship it's no joke they are called "Feminazis".

I deeply dislike this decision and I feel like there is some hidden money or power or intent behind this decision to undermine democracy, this is deeply concerning.

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@muglug β€’ 17 days

The overwhelming sentiment to the decision here is negative, but I don't quite understand that reaction.

If YouTube was just looking out for big brands and/or advertisers, they could have restricted the change incredibly simply. By making it a global change they're saying "ok now we understand how our UI actually led to some pretty bad outcomes in ways we failed to anticipate, and we're fixing that".

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@netcan β€’ 17 days

The trend continues...

Tiktok pushed the passive user experience further, and youtube is following. The ideal is user launches app, the app takes care of everything else. Looking at the downvote count is just an extra thing the user can, might or should do. The trend is to reduce these. Youtube's being trendy.

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@spicyramen β€’ 17 days

I'm a big soccer fan, dislike button is the best metric to gauge a game summary

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@robmccoll β€’ 17 days

I don't think this is a good idea. To me one of the biggest problems with social media that propagates disinformation to large unquestioning audiences is that there are easy ways to reinforce the message and to see how much it resonates, but it is hard to gauge when an idea is controversial or if there are many people who disagree. It is worth way more to see dislike counts and ratios on dangerous content than to protect creators from the internet being mean at all costs.

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@cyberpsybin β€’ 17 days

Google has been on a roll lately. Most obnoxious web corpo.

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@Pxtl β€’ 17 days

So, to clarify how HN's moderation works:

Disagreeing with people vociferously: you get told off and soft-blocked from HN.

Rampant conspiracy theories? Totally hunky dory.

Seriously, look at the mayhem in these comment threads. This is Q-level madness.

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@hstan4 β€’ 17 days

If people want to actually argue that a creator can be harassed by a dislike button, why not give the creator the option to disable dislikes for that specific video rather than pushing this onto every video out there?

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@twirlock β€’ 17 days

Everyone understands that this is to protect corporate news from negative feedback. Everyone understands this.

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@tomklein β€’ 17 days


@AdrienBrault β€’ 17 days

That feels like a change that will help misinformation

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@slackfan β€’ 17 days

Can't let people see the plebs getting rowdy.

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@rossy β€’ 17 days

> and reduce dislike attacks – where people work to drive up the number of dislikes on a creator’s videos.

Why not just hide dislikes from people until they've seen a certain percentage of the video?

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@nigrioid β€’ 17 days

This is because of all the COVID-19 mainstream media videos with far more dislikes than likes.

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@anonu β€’ 16 days

I like the concept of chrome extensions as overlays on pages, adding a new dimension to the page. Seems like one would be useful in this case...

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@josteink β€’ 17 days

> As always, I’ll be monitoring questions and feedback in the comments below. -Meaghan, TeamYouTube

Let me guess… Except for dissenting or disliking comments?

This move is all about removing users ability to voice disapproval in a simple and effective way when big corporations stumble.

Think PC movie remake-trailers, out of touch YouTube rewind videos, etc.

All heavily disliked, and users were allowed to say that.

I guess only corporate praise is allowed from now on?

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@l0b0 β€’ 17 days

Piling onto the anecdotes, I always do a rough maths of likes vs. dislikes before watching any video from unknown creators. For pure entertainment, a 100-to-1 ratio or better means it might be watchable. For science, maths or computing maybe 20-to-1. If a woman, black person or LGBTQ* person is presenting I assume that the haters have already got to the downvote button, so I give them about a 10x slack.

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@ddingus β€’ 16 days

Also, coming soon:

User comment: DISLIKE

Other users click like button on comment a ton of times...

Next official move?

Making comments visible to subscribers and premium users only...

Google is going against basic human nature here and it's Orwellian as fuck.

Next unofficial move?

Censor comments containing, "DISLIKE" because the ones doing it will stand right out same as they did before and having them not stand out is what is being attempted here.

And?

Yeah, DISLIKE

Edit:

I realize this is part of a bigger trend and that is to avoid mass signaling of any kind.

The major players do not want large numbers of people communicating because those lead to large actions, which are expensive and risky from their point of view. While this is perfectly understandable, a functional society allows for these things and it bears those costs and risk because of the even greater costs and risks associated with clamping down on dissent like this.

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@CodeGlitch β€’ 17 days

Honestly I think this will encourage people to post negative comments instead, which if you've seen YouTube comments can be pretty "colourful".

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@shadowgovt β€’ 17 days

Worth noting that this is merely an "update to."

Were it "An update on," we'd know dislike counts were being deleted and every API that ever mentioned them would be breaking.

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@Zamicol β€’ 17 days

This is an astoundingly cowardly decision. It's akin to holding an election and only revealing the votes of the winner. Shame on Google.

A far better solution would be allowing more metrics into downvotes. How many of the downvotes come from a Twitter or Reddit post? What's the age of the dislikers? The solution is more transparency, not the suppression of information.

I hope there's new solutions, like browser extensions, to fill in the gap. Centralized and unilateral decisions like this only further prove online liberty must fundamentally empower individuals.

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@prvc β€’ 17 days

By referring to the act of disliking the video as an "attack", they are framing this change as one which protects users, when in fact, only a small minority post videos, and a smaller portion among them are bothered by dislikes. In fact, the change is user-hostile, removing one channel for users to see whether a video is of low quality (inaccurate description, containing false information, etc.), and improving advertiser metrics artificially (this, by their own description).

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@vjancik β€’ 17 days

Next, they'll come after sarcastic comments and they won't stop until everybody in the world is smiling and happy :) :) :).

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@jamesfe β€’ 17 days

TL;DR "People watch fewer videos if they see more dislikes which means we make less ad revenue, the result of this A/B test is we will continue to optimize for ad rev"

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@dingle_thunk β€’ 17 days

There's a like button and no dislike button on the freaking blog post. Can you imagine the dislike ratio on this if they allowed it?

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@whywhywhywhy β€’ 17 days

What's stopping me posting "Upvote to dislike this" as a comment on every video I dislike.

Cowardly move that's being presented as one thing but really there is a deeper message here.

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@tinyhouse β€’ 17 days

That's not a feature we need. We need to know like/dislike ratio BEFORE clicking on a video so that we can avoid clicking on it. I end up clicking on so many spam videos cause Youtube doesn't tell you that simple number. For example, looking for sports highlights right after a game usually ends up with tens of spammy results with fake titles trying to take advantage of trendy topics.

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@swayvil β€’ 17 days

YT's aim, with this move, is to make a friendlier environment for propagandists, advertisers and anybody else who's pushing an ideology. They are the #1 source of cash after all.

For comparison, Reddit posts advertising that looks exactly like a user post. With voting and discussion turned off.

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@truly β€’ 17 days

I am really just starting out my channel, so I am not sure I really understand what is the (real) purpose of this change. A dislike hurts somewhat, but it is unavoidable this to happen when you have a large public. I have not seen dislike attacks (not to say they don't exist), but I'm pretty sure they can be avoided with other tactics.

I suspect that not showing the dislikes drives up engagement, but in my experience as a user I rarely look at the number of dislikes to judge a video.

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@qwertox β€’ 17 days

Hmm. For me the dislike button was informative. If feels like they are trying to create a world where everything can only be good, better, even more better, which just doesn't represent reality.

Imagine Stack Overflow only having the option to upvote Questions and Answers. The ratio of likes vs dislikes of a TED talk does help me to decide if I should stop watching a video which just isn't getting better.

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@t-writescode β€’ 17 days

So now I need to watch complete tutorial videos on obscure issues on YouTube to figure out if they're terrible or not?

Tutorial videos, especially, benefited from the like-dislike ratio, because if 200 people saw a video on setting up some software and 7 people liked it, but 30 people disliked it, it's pretty easy to know that that 10 minute tutorial video isn't worth watching, as it's pacing is slow, or inaccurate or missing major steps or whatever.

Neat.

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@buhrmi β€’ 17 days

If that post was a YouTube video it would only have dislikes

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@gitgud β€’ 17 days

It's not a huge deal in my opinion, it's the same decision Hacker News arrived at right?

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@vjancik β€’ 17 days

Workaround: Create a top comment saying:

"Upvote this comment if you disliked this video:"

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@notjes β€’ 17 days

I am all for it. But they should also remove like counts and comments. The content should speak for itself.

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@tinyhouse β€’ 17 days

That's not a feature we need. We need to know like/dislike ratio BEFORE clicking on a video so that we can avoid clicking on it. I end up clicking on so many spam videos cause Youtube doesn't tell you that simple number. For example, looking for sports highlights right after a game usually ends up with tens of spammy results with fake titles trying to take advantage of trendy topics.

I'm sure Youtube tries to down rank such videos but in practice it's still a big problem. I understand they are trying to protect creators from bad actors but negative feedback is usually more important than positive feedback.

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@peakaboo β€’ 17 days

Hahaha - I knew it was only a matter of time.

So many videos the last year has been downvoted severely because people see through all the bullshit being peddled by the mass media.

YouTube has been censoring and removing any content they can that is against the narrative being created by the mass media.

Large news stations have disabled comments on their videos to try and prevent dissent from being publicly viewable. Some of those videos has so many downvotes, it's hilarious to watch how the users are no longer sleeping and instead reacting to the bullshit.

And now, when censoring and disabling comments still can't hide the enormous dissent, they try to remove even the downvote button.

That's where we are in 2021. Pathetic.

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@livinginfear β€’ 17 days

Would it be a bit conspiratorial to guess that this is related to the terrible like/dislike ratio on the Biden administration's YouTube presence, as tracked by https://81m.org/

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@mvotesbesteever β€’ 17 days

Someone posted the link here a long time ago but some intrepid person was scraping youtube likes/dislikes on all the whitehouse videos and proved that youtube was actively manipulating vote count, sometimes by a very large percentage.

"Most popular president ever".

Total rubbish.

Trump is going to have to win for a third time now.

Let's Go Brandon!!

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@crackercrews β€’ 17 days

Any chance we can make a browser extension that registers votes of and shows vote counts for installed users?

Google would fight it. But we could always side-load if they do.

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@ApolloFortyNine β€’ 17 days

I do sort of understand, similar to Reddit posts, if you post something factual that the 51% simply don't agree with, you'll likely have more dislikes than likes. It doesn't always mean it was a bad video, or that you didn't back up what you were saying with studies/facts, but just that the 51% personally disagreed.

Now there's obviously a lot of videos that are just bad or full of lies that should be negative. But there's also plenty that sit negative for reasons entirely made of opinion.

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@dotancohen β€’ 16 days

  > You can still dislike videos to further personalize and tune your recommendations.
If I come across a low-quality rip of Dark Side of the Moon and dislike it, will Youtube recommend to me less Pink Floyd or less low quality rips? What if I dislike that horrible Barenboim performance of Beethoven's Ninth? Will I get less Beethoven or less horrible performances? What about reports of Israel killing Gazan children, when the video footage clearly shows children killed when a Hamas projectile they were "guarding" prematurely detonated? Do I get less news or less lies? What about that idiot who knows a lot about cars and car history (Donut maybe) but screams and acts like he graduated from Animal House? Do I get less informative car videos or less puerile screaming and sentences composed of 15 cuts, sometimes right in the middle of a compound word?

I think that basing recommendations on a single dimension is flawed in its own right.

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@cmaggiulli β€’ 16 days

This is another big tech bubble wrap initiative. There is no β€œdisapprove” option left. Everyone needs to be positive about everything at all times

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@0xFreebie β€’ 17 days

A loose remaining proxy will be the ratio of like count to view count. Perhaps one of those will be axed next. I don't understand why complaining creators don't just turn off voting.

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@scottmcdot β€’ 17 days

Would it be a breach of terms and conditions if a creator live streamed their down vote stats?

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@TrianguloY β€’ 17 days

In the past, people needed to learn to not take random negative opinions on the internet seriously. Now they don't allow them directly.

More seriously: I can understand people feeling bad for negative opinions on their own content (it's hard and you need to feel it directly to be able to understand), however if they do want to protect creators which can't protect themselves, make it invisible for the creators themselves, like a button to "don't see dislikes on my own videos". Those creators will probably be unaware of the fact they are being disliked and learn from it, but at least viewers won't be disturbed.

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@f38zf5vdt β€’ 17 days

Time to code up a quick Likes/Views ratio to inject below videos with ViolentMonkey.

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@nirui β€’ 16 days

> In short, our experiment data showed a reduction in dislike attacking behavior

"attacking behavior"? This tone is giving me some weird feelings.

Here is a constructive opinion: Add it as an optional feature. Let the publisher select "Display both like and dislike counts", "Display only like counts" and "Don't display both count". YouTube has already implemented the "Display both" and "Hide both" option in their "Studio"/video manage page, they just need to add a new one.

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@wdb β€’ 17 days

Why not protect the other creators which don't get so many likes compared to other creators and hide the like count too?

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@schainks β€’ 17 days

Google switched to finance numbers-based management ages ago. This decision, while unpopular, is money driven, and they think it will make them money.

Edit: I, too, use the ratio of likes/dislikes to make a decision about spending time watching something.

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@narrator β€’ 17 days

I always said that youtube is too successful and is looking for ways to get rid of users. Peak youtube, as far as pure power for users, was probably the late 2000s. 2016 was when things started to go downhill.

We have a lot of problems where our society has been too successful at its technological goal. Inequality, climate change, gun control. All areas where capitalist economics has produced wild success and enormous effort is diverted from other useful goals to control that success.

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@emodendroket β€’ 17 days

Surprised it's held on this long.

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@kodah β€’ 17 days

I'm curious how useful voting really is. The usefulness of it really depends on if voters are disciplined enough to remove their opinion voting and vote based on an established, high-level framework. The latter still includes some opinion, but at least more rigorous and less opinionated.

I can see a couple outcomes from such a system:

- downvotes are guideline violations

- upvotes indicate relativity, not necessarily agreeableness

- no interaction would be common

All of this is centric to a users thought. I don't think a machine could be taught these things.

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@cortexio β€’ 17 days

probably because youtube their own videos are mostly downvoted for 90% because everyone recognises they make propaganda videos and people dont like it. But, in general this is bad. How is it any different than north korea, where you can only show your praise to the leader but not the dislike? sigh..

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@phendrenad2 β€’ 16 days

People are talking about how this will make it difficult to get good information. And that is true. No one will downvote videos now, because publicly expressing your disapproval was the only reason to do so.

Now, the only people who will downvote are people who are technically savvy enough to realize that downvoting will help YouTube recommend better videos to them.

It's a shame, YouTube is one of the last platforms where publicly expressing your disapproval via a voting system is possible. And I think this has an effect on the nature of internet discourse. Look at the difference in conversations on Twitter vs Reddit. On Twitter, if you see something that you disagree with, you leave an (often ad hominem) comment. On Reddit, you just downvote, and feel equally satisfied.

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@dotancohen β€’ 16 days

From the fine article:

  > You can still dislike videos to further personalize and tune your recommendations.
2016 Dislike button: Feature to inform other users that a video is not worth watching.

2021 Dislike button: Feature to inform google to show _you_ other content.

Google is hijacking user interface concepts to slowly train users to train the machine about how to train them.

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@notzaler β€’ 17 days

The like to dislike ratio is one of the best indicators of whether a video is clickbait or not. We are now at the stage where vies for our attention have become a zero-sum game. This will ultimately favour bad actors more than it will help out small creators.

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@dusted β€’ 16 days

I actually thing this is a fair idea. Preserving the button so I can tell the algorithm (and video author) that it's not something I want to see is a good thing. Hiding the number of dislikes makes me unable to be biased towards what I've seen and forces me more directly to form my own opinion.

I think it would be a good idea to do the same with the Likes count.

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@rickspencer3 β€’ 16 days

I read this as an example of my belief that unfettered engagement without a strong Code of Conduct enforced by human moderates always leads to a toxic community. Removing degrees of freedom in expression is necessary without such efforts to have and enforce standards.

For example, if you use Nintendo products, you can see that they rarely allow unfettered communication. For example, you can choose from a list of things to say, or you can choose an emotion to express, but you can't type whatever you want to other players on their network (usually).

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@post_break β€’ 17 days

So now I can't quickly see if a video how-to is a complete waste of my time or not. Great.

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@inChargeOfIT β€’ 17 days

This will make the site useless for finding new content and content creators. And what's the point of a Like count without a Dislike count?

I'll just assume every video has as many, if not more, dislikes and will turn to other sources for finding quality content (if at all).

And they might as well get rid of the comments section too cause that's where people will voice their opinions.. but maybe that's part of the plan.

Anyway, I've been a paying premium member since the beginning but the second I stop seeing dislike counts is the second I find other things to do with my time. Sad, because I really enjoy surfing YouTube.

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@greenimpala β€’ 16 days

No matter whether you agree or disagree with this change (good reasons for both sides in the comments), what does it say about our society that a minute UI change on a website by a private company can potentially cause huge consequence

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@adamc β€’ 17 days

Well, it was a good way to get me to cancel youtube premium. It seems like a clear indicator that we are the product, and content creators the actual customers.

No worries, there are always alternatives.

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@louissan β€’ 17 days

Disney's been talking to them ....

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@butler14 β€’ 17 days

This isn’t about small content creators. It’s almost certainly about big brands (advertisers) that hate it when their high budget movie/game/trailer/whatever gets publicly downvoted.

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@jjice β€’ 17 days

The like:dislike ratio is so important when picking a tutorial video. If I see a video on replacing my headlights has an awful ratio, I'm going to save myself the time and find a different video. YouTube has been disappointing me for years now, mostly with their hiding of things. Subscriptions don't work the same as they used to and recommended videos take precedence over everything else.

The issue is that it's so critical to learning these days, and so much of the entertainment I consume comes from it. Can't say I'm surprised though. Social media has it's positives and enjoyable properties, but in the end, they will manipulate the platform in the most fiscally advantageous way.

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@Ellipse0934 β€’ 16 days

My comment on their post: (Nobody will read it there but you fine folk might) > Just letting you know that I have unsubscribed from youtube premium and will actively be looking for youtube alternatives for content consumption (and creation in the future ?). While the dislike button has potential for abuse there is also potential for abuse by having no feedback mechanism. There are tons of DIY/informative videos on youtube where the information is wrong and can hurt viewers, what happens when someone unsuspecting installs a virus on their computer or gets scammed ? What happens when someone buys a product whose quality is extremely poor ? Does youtube take responsibility ? No, because you are a platform and had no role. I don't mind if you want to monitor the dislikes for abuse but this is taking it too far. I also don't mind creators manually switching off the bar for their videos.

At the end of the day you are manufacturing consent for your users as per the demands of your corporation friends and advertisers. You want a happy place where everything is happy and joyful with no abuse and attacking but alas that is not the world in which we live. Have fun and make profits hacking the brains of the viewers you "say" you care about for your advertisers and corporate friends.

Peace out!

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@alias_neo β€’ 16 days

I'm listening to a "Spaces" chat about this on Twitter right now, and I tend to disagree with the consensus, but I don't have a voice there.

As a viewer, who uses YouTube for educational/learning reasons, dislike ratio is really important for me to know whether I should or should not spend the hour or sometimes more to watch it, rather than go find something else which may be better.

The pessimist in me sees this as a way for YouTube to take away that knowledge you'd have up front, forcing you to watch a video (and the adverts it contains) before you can decide whether it was worth your time.

The pragmatist in me however believes that if we're going to remove dislike counts, we should remove like counts, but again, the pessimist sees this as something that wouldn't benefit YouTube.

Ultimately, given that people are being abused through the counter, I accept the removal of its utility and will probably just bounce out of videos that may or may not have been suitable much more quickly.

For the record, I believe I may have _clicked_ dislike, no more than a handful of times ever for really, truly poor "content".

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@shalmanese β€’ 17 days

This feels like one of those changes where they already decided to do it and used an experiment to justify their decision. The binary choice between showing only raw dislikes or no dislikes as well tilts the table towards an extreme change.

There's lots of interesting design choices they could have made of not encouraging dislike storms while still giving valuable info to viewers like highlighting if any video has an unusually high dislike to like ratio or attaching comments to dislikes and highlighting highly upvoted reasons why certain people are choosing to dislike a video etc.

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@dukeofdoom β€’ 17 days

Almost any video featuring Biden, the "most popular" president in history, gets disliked by a huge ratio. So Youtube is making it that you can't publicly dislike government propaganda now. Huge setback for civil rights and democracy. Government lies, and corporate media joining hands together yet again.

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@nfRfqX5n β€’ 17 days

purely for engagement

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@wffurr β€’ 17 days

What a disaster all the top-level comments are both here and on the article.

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@dgudkov β€’ 17 days

It solves nothing. They still need something to mark poor quality videos so that the viewers don't waste time figuring it out themselves. Oh, wait, the mighty algorithm gods of Google will again decide for you what you like.

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@maxehmookau β€’ 16 days

Talk about tinkering around the edges.

How about making an effort to remove polical and health misinformation?

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@JohnWhigham β€’ 17 days

You WILL watch the video

You WILL like the video

You WILL have absolutely no say over anything

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@Gentil β€’ 16 days

As much as I would love to give the benefit of the doubt, this is purely about increasing engagement. Disliking something was a very easy way to say I don't like this.

When something controversial happens from now onwards, you will have engage in the comment section. Humans cannot just move on when they have strong feelings about something like Politics or Climate change for example. With the dislike button gone, most people will feel the need to say you don't like/agree with a video. How do you do that? Comments. The negative engagement makes Youtube/Google money. This has been a known fact for a long time. This way they can cash on it more with increased engagement.

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@NiceWayToDoIT β€’ 16 days

So, now it is same like Instagram there is only like, how do we stop toxic/click-bait videos spreading?

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@haunter β€’ 17 days

Nice try but Amy Schumer still sucks

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@tetrahedr0n β€’ 17 days

Brilliant.

People will often watch something they dislike with more intensity than something they like. The number of dislikes isn't the reason they want to watch it, it's the idea the title or cover image brings to mind. And those ideas and images are curated by Google.

Take the number of dislikes out of visibility and you strip the noise away from the signal that makes them money; views.

And who knows, the user might end up watching something that they wouldn't normally due to dislikes and, surprise, they like it. More exposure, less echo chamber-like. Less potential influence over a viewer's opinion of the content.

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@suyash β€’ 17 days

In other words "High dislike count in our videos hurts our ability to make more money so we don't want people to leave when they see others disliking the video, better we don't want other to dislike, only like and see count of how many likes"

- IMO a fair decision would have been to remove count for both dislikes and likes if they really cared about bias but they don't.

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@devwastaken β€’ 17 days

When people are unable to express their disagreement with something in a civil way, they become uncivil. There is plenty of bad content on youtube that may not be against the law, but youtube allows it. I can quickly know if something is controversial by the like and dislikes.

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@vincentclee β€’ 17 days

These videos have a lot of dislikes https://www.youtube.com/c/WhiteHouse/videos

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@throwaway879080 β€’ 16 days

Apparently someone's feelings got hurt by dislikes lol

#LetsGoBrandon

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@dmalvarado β€’ 16 days

WHAT.

The like / dislike ratio is EXTREMELY useful. I'm very disappointed that they would do this. I expect it will be much harder to avoid useless content with this removed.

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@mythrwy β€’ 16 days

Maybe the end goal was always the control of information and advertising was just a sideline. Same with Facebook.

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@godDLL β€’ 17 days

So likes show you how popular something is.

And dislikes don't show you how controversial it is, or perhaps how general Youtube audience reacts to being exposed to something.

So that now if you want to make it known you have to leave a comment. And then some stats have to be done on the comments to understand the sentiment. On Youtube's shitty unforum, you have to do stats. Right.

They just sealed it, all of their likes, dislikes, comments etc.; all of Youtube's non-streaming aspects are demonstrably useless, not just "feel useless", but actually are it.

Time to support things like ogjre.com and reddit etc., for they provide what Youtube denies.

Community. Forums. Thought. Orientation and discrimination. What is good, and who would think that it is. What is objectionable, and for whom.

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@NazakiAid β€’ 17 days

Was watching YT shorts, and all you see is the likes. Lots of likes, and I was thinking who watches this crap. Thankfully the comments made me realize I am not alone in this though. Wish I could have wasted less time by having the amount of dislikes listed.

Now I am going to have to do the same method on YT videos as I do shorts, where I go look at the comments first which is unfortunate.

Stupid move from YT but was warned it was going to happen.

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@xg15 β€’ 17 days

> Those in the experiment could still see and use the public dislike button, but because the count was not visible to them, we found that they were less likely to target a video’s dislike button to drive up the count. In short, our experiment data showed a reduction in dislike attacking behavior 1.

I know it was for a halfway good cause this time, but does anyone else find it creepy with how much nonchalance they are talking about behaviour modification and nudging here?

Google would like its users to more frequently show behaviour X, so they made some A/B tests, found which UI changes most effectively increase the prevalence of X and are now implementing the changes.

No need anymore to actually communicate rules with your users if you can just manipulate them into showing a particular behaviour.

It's not just Google doing this, however they are in a position to do this most effectively right now.

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@ospzfmbbzr β€’ 17 days

Yawn... who still uses Youtube? I don't even youtube-dl their crap any more. They are a joke. If I wanted to watch TV I would not have cancelled my cable in 2001.

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@dboshardy β€’ 17 days

I find the negative sentiment for this on a forum that also lacks a downvote/dislike option perplexing.

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@DevKoala β€’ 17 days

You have to protect the emperor’s new clothes.

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@symlinkk β€’ 17 days

Just consume the content, slave. Do not question it, do not resist it, just consume and move on.

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@hnburnsy β€’ 16 days

YouTube used to have 5 star ratings, they got rid of that in 2010 [1]. If stars and dislikes are so bad, why do they have them in the Play Store. I wonder if Trip Advisor and Yelp are next with only likes.

[1] - https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/five-stars-dominate-rat...

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@qu4ku β€’ 17 days

Ministry of Truth found dislike button not helpful.

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@jagged-chisel β€’ 17 days

I wonder whether the views-to-likes ratio can serve as a proxy for dislikes. If you watched it, then didn't like it (i.e. didn't click the like button), you [probably?] disliked it.

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@randomperson_24 β€’ 16 days

Even HN doesn't show the number of downvotes publicly. So why this much hate?

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@subsubzero β€’ 17 days

This still seems like a huge disconnect to what people use youtube for vs. what google thinks it should be used for.

Google wants youtube to be all network and brands making content. ie. a future version of what TV is now. What actual people want is creator made videos(diy/review/podcast videos and everything else that make youtube wonderful).

This disconnect has been happening since google bought youtube and this recent change only reflects google wanting to hide backlash/or dislike from who it sees should rightfully be on youtube, brands/networks/corporations.

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@zoidb β€’ 17 days

I suppose this means the neutral response https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ will no longer be a thing :(

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@passerby1 β€’ 17 days

How to turn off YT recommendations completely? Any FF/chromium extension for that?

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@timdaub β€’ 17 days

I can't help but think that this is just corporate bullshit.

Purely rationally speaking, I think whether or not a dislike amount is shown or not is not gonna be impactful for the things YouTube should optimize to become a better software product and company.

In order to battle fake news, misinformation and fostering a happy and global community, much more fundamental changes are appropriate. But those are inherently incompatible with the liquidity model Youtube/Google/Alphabet have chosen: Increasing shareholder value & profit.

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@ceilingcorner β€’ 17 days

Sounds like a great use-case for a browser extension. Too bad YouTube and the biggest browser are owned by the same company…

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@jcun4128 β€’ 17 days

Annoying like how they won't show ratings on search results, particularly annoying on fake movie trailers or generally anything fake like fake spacex live streams with crypto scams on top.

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@kf6nux β€’ 17 days

I'm a little surprised no one reached for the obvious humor here: Google spends hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn humans will create mobs.

This was such an obvious/good change to make. Viewers will still be able to use views:upvotes ratio for determining a video's popularity/worth. A mob won't want to attack that ratio because a high view count could encourage more views.

Judging by what's bubbling up on HN, I guess I'm in the minority on this one.

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@rootsudo β€’ 17 days

I really dislike how the world is going to a "forced like" model - can't show any dissenting view, argue, debate or have personal opinions.

It even goes to some facebook groups, discords and more. Say anything that's against the grain and immediate kick and ban.

What a change from the old days, where through debate you found great middle ground, or just fun chat/time waste on IRC.

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@lucideer β€’ 16 days

This seems like an odd thing to target. I haven't found dislikes to be problematic in the context of YouTube videos: in fact they're usually an indicator of something in the content itself (I've only ever seen high dislikes either on videos that were themselves problematic or harmful, or on unpopular corporate announcements).

For "creators" on YouTube the real problems seem to come from the contents of comments.

This[0] recent video rant has some interesting insights toward the end of the video where other popular YouTubers are interviewed on how negative comments impacted them. What I found thought provoking was how much of a negative impact some particular types of comments that seemed in good intent-e.g. commenters stating their preference for a previous video format "I preferred when you ___". Feels like Google/social media sites could do something around sentiment heuristics; I know Twitter has started some stuff like this.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVCpKfedfok

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@axiom92 β€’ 17 days

All is not lost, as the dislike count is not independent of the number of views and the like count.

Specifically, if a popular video has a small number of likes, one can safely assume that it has a large number of dislikes.

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@jrootabega β€’ 17 days

Note the logical fallacy they want to implant here: Dislike "attacks" result in high dislike counts, therefore all high dislike counts are not genuine.

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@zahrc β€’ 16 days

Great, now I have to trust this wonderful algorithm.

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@tonoto β€’ 12 days

This is not to support its users. Suddenly it is way harder to avoid the bad quality videos there is. Perhaps someone has a good curator page/filter where only the good (perhaps 1000 / 50 ratio or so) videos are linked? I am a current premium user but find no use at all for this kind of policies and I find it rather annoying.

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@larinzod β€’ 17 days

I feel they should do the same with the Like button. There is cognitive bias towards crowd approval/disapproval. But they aren't likely to implement that since it would cut revenue from the "we'll I'll watch this suggestion since 100K people liked it" group. Where removing the Dislike just works in their favor.

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@kypro β€’ 17 days

> We want to create an inclusive and respectful environment where creators have the opportunity to succeed and feel safe to express themselves.

It's an interesting position because the assumption YouTube would have to be making here to do this is that their viewers opinion of the content they're watching is either wrong, or irrelevant.

Also the only instances of dislike "harassment" and I am aware of has been because a content creator has been recently exposed for participating in some immoral activity such as a scam or sexual abuse.

The only other time I see content heavily downvote is when it's disagreeable in some way. For example, a lot of content from mainstream media outlets is often downvoted, presumably not because people have any particular desire to harass news organisations, but because their content is often largely disapproved of.

I must admit I've never seen a video get downvoted for no reason -- is this something anyone has observed on YouTube? The reason I ask is because I worry this move is more likely to be motivated by YouTube disagreeing with the viewers about what should and shouldn't be downvoted. For example, I very much doubt they care some white dude being "harassed" by the dislike button for expressing some racist ideas, but if a black women gets downvoted for expressing a controversial far-left political position that does seem to be viewed as more problematic and represented of "harassment" by silicon valley types these days.

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@soheil β€’ 17 days

I wonder how long it takes before there is a chrome ext that brings back likes/dislikes similar to AdBlock or SponsorBlock. It’s the ratio that I care about not the absolute numbers.

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@frankzander β€’ 17 days

I cant eat as much as I want to vomit! rm -rf /google

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@nickstinemates β€’ 17 days

I don't think I've ever looked at likes/dislikes for a youtube video. I also don't engage in most up/downvote systems on average. I am not sure how much of an outlier I am, but I wouldn't notice this being gone at all.

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@greatgib β€’ 17 days

<<In short, our experiment data showed a reduction in dislike attacking behavior 1.>>

Clearly a flawed conclusion. For the result of their experiment they deduced what they wanted it to say. Because we can easily say that the effect is not "dislike attacking" but other effects:

- shy people more afraid to give their opinion not knowing that others have done the same.

- the feature feeling useless, as even if you dislike, you might thing that you click will worth nothing as no one will see it.

Imagine if you were voting for something but no one will give you the result of the votation.

Also, strangely they did not do the same experiment with the "like" button to see if there was not a "like attack".

So when I see something like that, I'm thinking that they are now in the dominant position where they don't have to care about their users anymore...

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@lifeplusplus β€’ 17 days

Regulatory hijacking but of private entity. Reddit, YouTube, and such have already made clear and they no longer pretend to care about free speech and instead have an agenda

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@ravenstine β€’ 17 days

They wouldn't remove dislike counts across the board (seemingly with no opt-out?) if there wasn't a financial advantage to doing so. I don't believe this is because they think it's good for the community.

Is it any coincidence that, in an era where establishment media frequently gets highly ratio'd (look content from the White House, MSM, films with political agendas), an organization that relies on advertising as well as government contracts makes it convenient for said establishment to perpetuate the illusion that there is no dissent?

Let's put aside the possibility that getting brigaded with dislikes can be psychologically harmful to the individual.

How will there ever be actual revolts against the establishment if everyone believes there are no other dissenters? That's the real trouble behind making it impossible to share any negative sentiment on the internet, which is a pattern that mainstream platforms like Google/YouTube are continually edging towards, and it's a darker pattern than most people understand. The simplest way to prevent threats to your regime is to make it difficult, if not impossible for people who agree on the wrong things to recognize that they are not alone.

Hold on ravenstine... these are just dislikes on a bunch of dumb cat videos. You call that "dissent"?

When a piece of media with a wide audience is overwhelmingly disapproved of by that audience, that tells you something about reality. Being selectively exposed to only approved opinions is a disconnection from reality. If you aren't connected with reality, at best your ability to make predictions is impaired, and at worst you can be controlled without even knowing it. If you think you're the only one that disagrees with CorpGov propaganda, you are much more likely to sit on your ass, never getting up to vote, never getting up to protest, never expressing your disagreement with the establishment, because what would be the point? All you could do is accept that you are the crazy one and go with the flow, which happens to be highly convenient for the power structure.

Personally, I don't care that much in the case of YouTube because I believe it has peaked long ago and is begging for a serious replacement. But if all mainstream social media decides to go full speed ahead with this sort of reality manipulation YouTube is attempting today, then I think we are headed for trouble as a global/digital civilization.

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@podgaj β€’ 17 days

I am done with the internet. It is nothing but toxic positivity.

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@grae_QED β€’ 16 days

I understand the incentives, however, I think the biggest consequence of this is that it will give a false sense of support on conspiratorial videos and other forms of misinformation.

Some people think that the more likes a video has, the more the community agrees with it's message, and therefore the more truth the video contains. The classic appeal to the majority fallacy.

This is only going to strengthen those communities and empower them further.

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@lloydatkinson β€’ 16 days

This is insane.

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@sellyme β€’ 17 days

I'm getting real sick of websites I use becoming less and less functional the bigger they get.

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@jackdh β€’ 17 days

I now only have strong feelings about this one way.

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@nathias β€’ 17 days

I remember when Blizzard made their announcement of Diablo 4 youtube was erasing dislikes, but couldn't keep up.

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@ordiel β€’ 16 days

Oh! the maximum expression of irony comes by seen how many dislikes that shit is getting...

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@ArcCompArthur β€’ 16 days

In my opinion this is a bad move. The dislike counter helps me optimize my time and help me avoid bad information. For example if I see a tutorial or some other video with many dislikes I can sometimes predict that the steps in the video aren’t reproducible. In several cases the creator of a video tutorial has linked malicious software in the video as part of the steps of the tutorial and I’ve caught that by first noticing the dislike counter.

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@adminscoffee β€’ 17 days

was this because all joe biden videos had more downvotes than upvotes? just kidding but all jokes aside i don't think getting rid of the dislikes is a good idea.

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@FridayoLeary β€’ 17 days

A lot of comments seem to think that this is a malicious decision made by the upper management of google for a variety of sinister reasons. I might be naive but i wonder if this isn't just a poorly thought out decision by somebody, the only motivation being that no dislikes will encourage more creators and thus increase advertising revenue. The poorly thought out part of this is that they are treating their users like plastic bags, but i think users are allowing themselves to be treated like that anyway.

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@dukeofdoom β€’ 17 days

You can't down vote Chinese leaders, and North Korean leaders speeches in their countries. Why should you be able to do in the West. Thanks Youtube, we can't do it here either now. Youtube, making the world a better place, and less embarrassing to our great leaders.

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@avsteele β€’ 17 days

Why not just make sure the person has watched >X% of the video before allowing like/dislike?

Its like they haven't though this through...

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@DeathArrow β€’ 17 days

Google learned from Facebook. Next they will remove the dislike button and introduce other reactions.

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@ghawk1ns β€’ 17 days

Twitter users solved this with the "ratio"

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@pshushereba β€’ 17 days

Rebecca Black from 10 years ago would've liked this.

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@voldacar β€’ 17 days

Makes a little more sense when you consider what the #1 disliked video is. Clearly google is really in touch with their audience and their desires here

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@throwaway2077 β€’ 16 days

it is unacceptable that goodthink content that promotes correct opinions gets ratioed and ridiculed.

the writing was on the wall for a while. this was probably the final nail in the coffin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDcvPf78g1k

kudos to our billionaire overlords, celebrities and their first world cosmopolitan yuppie congregation for looking out for us unwashed, uneducated plebeians. without their guidance, we'd be lost.

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@bevelwork β€’ 17 days

I have no strong feelings one way or the other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxK_nA2iVXw

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@karaterobot β€’ 17 days

They performed an experiment to see if removing the dislike button would mitigate brigade voting, or mob voting, especially against small creators. The results of their experiment, they say, is that it did address this issue.

That sounds like a great result!

The problem would be if they did not test any other side effect of removing the dislike button. For example, if the only thing they tested was whether it prevented mob downvoting in a small number of cases, and not whether it negatively affected the experience for a majority of users, the results of the experiment would not mean much. Based on the reaction, I am guessing this what they actually did.

(If they published their methodology and results somewhere, I apologize: I looked but did not find anything like this).

That's the problem with product research: it's often poorly designed, when it's not just designed to confirm a prior decision and back it up with some data.

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@beezischillin β€’ 16 days

This is part of a wider trend in the corporate internet of getting rid of visible user interaction to stop publicising user opinion. News publications have slowly gotten rid of comments sections, Google itself (an entity quite close to the USG) is following suit. Of course I suspect that the idea here is less about creator choice, since they can already hide and filter user interaction to their hearts content and more about some high profile channels of some importance being able to save face since manually disabling interactions looks worse for them.

I’ve seen some interesting projects in the past that were browser based and made the entire Internet be equipped with comments sections, including YouTube. I wonder if something like that would be viable, maybe with the addition of a like dislike bar.

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@SllX β€’ 17 days

https://youtu.be/kxOuG8jMIgI

Direct link to the video if you want to β€œDislike” it. Or β€œLike” it too I suppose.

Also I can still see the count: as of this writing it is 2.8K up and 1.6K down.

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@herewego99 β€’ 17 days

Looks like rick rolls are back on the menu boys.

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@klipklop β€’ 17 days

Odd that a certain political party got a large amount of downvotes on all their videos and YouTube removes the publics ability to see them soon after.

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@gadrev β€’ 17 days

It was useful, but they don't care. The same can be said about too many "changes" these days.

Bah.

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@cletus β€’ 17 days

I'm sure this is to appease brands and we can say a lot about that.

But I want to focus on one big problem with dislikes and down votes. It applies to Youtube, Reddit, HN and probably everywhere you can dislike something: too often people use it simply because they disagree with the opinion expressed or simply dislike to creator or author.

This really diminishes the value of downvoting (IMHO) and I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to address it by figuring out who these opinion downvoters are and just shadow banning them, specifically you let them interact with the UI elements but it doesn't do anything. My theory is you'd get a much better result.

You also have people who review bomb things and I'm not sure how I feel about that. It's a way to express dissatisfaction with, say, company actions (eg ridiculous DRM) and that has value.

You also see things like on restaurant reviews "giving one star because even though the food was excellent and we had a reservation for 4 at 7pm on Friday night, we had to wait 45 minutes when we turned up at 8pm with a party of 11".

I am inclined to think that downvoting and dislikking actually has pretty limited value with the way people use it.

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@gorwell β€’ 17 days

This is another example of how the ruling class is trying to reassert control over the narrative and flow of information.

Flag dissent as `misinformation`, remove comments, remove dislikes. Bit by bit, clamping down on the ability for the public to revolt.

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@gfodor β€’ 17 days

Nothing to be concerned about, citizen. If a video is disinformation, no need to look for downvotes, YouTube’s moderators will take care of removing that dangerous content for you. Nothing to see here.

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@tootahe45 β€’ 16 days

I think everybody expected this. Big corp/biden news has struggled to keep up the facade lately. Look at the dislike counts here https://www.youtube.com/c/WhiteHouse/videos

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@sequel_database β€’ 17 days

They're still mad about YouTube Rewind

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@Andrew_nenakhov β€’ 17 days

No doubt, both Kremlin and White House would be very happy about it.

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@rdiddly β€’ 17 days

Anyone else marveling at the amount of time/effort/thought spent on this vs. let's say (clichΓ© incoming) curing cancer, or (slightly less clichΓ© but quickly catching up) stopping/mitigating climate change?

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@wly_cdgr β€’ 17 days

I bet Google always keeps a few big but not particularly time-sensitive announcements like this in their back pocket so they can drop them as a distraction when some sizeable negative story about them breaks - say, when a $2.8B antritrust ruling goes against them (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29175511)

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@dameyawn β€’ 17 days

In response to their reasoning, why not instead hide dislikes only for smaller creators then? Once you reach a certain threshold of views/subscribers, it becomes visible again.

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@dkdk8283 β€’ 17 days

Very sad to see this move, pathetic.

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@nikolayasdf123 β€’ 17 days

cancelling my premium too. screw this.

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@teitoklien β€’ 17 days

I guess now , I’ll just consider views to like ratio as a new form of hinting at dislike

Overall , this is a pretty bad move, If a creator feels harassed by dislikes , they should use it as a way of learning to grow thick skin, They need it anyways as public professionals.

Instead what now went away, is information on how others in a community reacted to a video or content,

Dislikes have always been a great way to detect misinformation or incorrect content or atleast give a hint that a topic needs more researching.

Now, someone who’s new to all of this, Will see a youtube video on cleaning their desktop and wont understand why,

Running β€œsudo rm -rf β€”no-preserve-root /β€œ Is a very bad idea ....

(Pls dont run this command on your computer)

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@rehhouari β€’ 17 days

so what indicator can we use to check whether a video is scam/pointless/have wrong information?

The only one benifiting from this is Youtube itself since we'll have to watch entire videos wasting hours on useless content and they make more money.

"dislike attacks" what an implausible argument.

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@yanis_t β€’ 16 days

So who's the first to implement a Chrome extension that brings the dislike button back?

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@gitpusher β€’ 17 days

RIP to one of my favorite YouTube comment formats:

> "<dislike number> of people <something funny related to the video>"

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@MisterBastahrd β€’ 17 days

Yes, by all means, let's protect our advertisers from the users of the platform. Great thinking!

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@Gelob β€’ 15 days

I'm go glad THIS is what youtube is doing to promote inclusion and respect across youtube. not you know the hate videos, comments, and unfairness in how they apply and enforce their policies

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@Ichijoe β€’ 15 days

It's simple... We turn the Upvote into the Down vote, and vote down to vote up.

No it's not helpful in the short term but, hopefully Mama Susan will get the message.

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@yakkityyak β€’ 17 days

Like/Dislike is a terrible indicator of quality. I'd rather they make public some sort of derivation from the video retention ratio. Wether or not people actually finished the video rather than smashed the like button (which is now an ask every creator has in their intro now) would be a way more useful indicator to me of quality.

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@bequanna β€’ 17 days

> We’ve also heard directly from smaller creators, and those just getting started with their YouTube channel, that they are unfairly targeted by dislike attacks

Wow. Well, the politically motivated truth behind this change is pretty darn obvious, right?

If you're confused what I mean, check any US mainstream media video with an obvious political slant but pretending to be "objective news" and look at the like/dislike ratio. The system is totally working...except it isn't working out well for the political party that YT would prefer.

The more striking thing to me is how little effort they put into the cover excuse. IMO this just shows they don't really care about the optics of censoring speech or letting users flag propaganda. Quite brazen.

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@reubens β€’ 17 days

A lot of comments about the inconvenience to the viewer given this was how we decided whether to watch a video.

But I think the dislike ratio will still decide whether a video is suggested to you, so will still determine whether you end up watching the video?

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@savant_penguin β€’ 17 days

CNN must be loving this

(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYZTN5NkxmQ 11k / 70k)

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@drenvuk β€’ 17 days

So now we have to trust their recommendation algos rather than other users to avoid trash content. This is stupid.

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@dprophecyguy β€’ 17 days

They are removing it before Youtube rewind. Hmmm what could be the reason ???

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@garfieldnate β€’ 16 days

I dislike the information asymmetry this creates between the poster of a video and its viewers. 100K likes serves implicitly as a kind of social proof; no one but the poster gets to know if it also has 80K dislikes. So it's quite easy and natural to look at a video and think that it has some kind of societal approval. It would have been better to hide the number of likes, too.

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@ahtaarra β€’ 15 days

I think the danger of such a shift is that people will no longer have the same level of incentive to make 'good' videos but rather clickbait-y ones that go viral

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@aclatuts β€’ 17 days

There should have be an option for the content creator to enable or disable this. Just like how comments can be enabled or disabled per video or the whole channel. Since this change was for creators to reduce harassment on themselves.

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@docmars β€’ 17 days

Whitehouse can't handle criticism, bummer.

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@Andrew_nenakhov β€’ 17 days

At this point, Google can just add YouTube likes as an in-app purchase. 1000 likes for $10 or something like that.

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@rektide β€’ 17 days

Reducing what the worlds gets to see, what feedback/visibility we have, is going to be such a sad sad ongoing theme for this ultra-consumerized/consumptive information-technology. There's no reason to let us be informed consumers.

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@happynacho β€’ 17 days

Protecting the white house legendary ratios.

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@truthwhisperer β€’ 16 days

a lot of EU propaganda videos like illegal immigrants or climate got a lot of dislikes. First they played the Russian Card but as that general public did not accept this they now hide the dislikes because they want to force people to like climate actions and welcome immigrants.

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@kmeisthax β€’ 17 days

I personally think this should only apply in specific circumstances, such as smaller creators or creators likely to be targeted by harassment (e.g. women, racial minorities, openly LGBT, etc). However, I can also imagine a counterargument that hiding dislikes here would be considered some kind of indicator that a person is worth harassing for lols. I'm not sure exactly how to balance that.

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@htoweur234 β€’ 16 days

Snowflakes want to spout lies day in day out, but don't want to be accountable for it, or be called out on their lies.

Twitter and now Google. Par for course I guess.

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@cute_boi β€’ 17 days

I am very ambivalent about this decision. I have saved multiple hours just by watching ratio of like and dislikes. At least show us the ratio and better hide the like count too. (but we know they wont hide like count because they want to keep user engaged to earn more advertising $$$)

Just to appease few creator taking away the functionality just seem abysmal to me.

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@_trampeltier β€’ 17 days

I think you maybe just should be able to vote, after you watched, maybe over 50% or so, if the video.

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@roody15 β€’ 17 days

Really quite dystopian. Just another move to blatantly try and shape/control the national narrative.

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@missinfo β€’ 17 days

Check out the downvotes and top comments on their announcement video. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't disable comments yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxOuG8jMIgI

"Great to see YouTube finally protecting creators like Pepsi and Gillette"

"This is the most offensively dishonest thing you've posted even for your standard. Dislike counts were essential to spot scams, fake/bad tutorials, clickbaits and were especially important as a tool to fight back against horrible megacorporation announcements."

"To protect creators that suck, like politicians, big corporations that sponsor us, and astroturfed talentless on demand era hacks, we're preventing you from seeing how unpopular they are."

β€œWe want everyone to have a voice, unless those voices are valid criticism or go against our agenda.”

"No one wants this other than the corporations who are getting shamed for putting out awful content that the public dislike. You are removing a key protection people have from scamming, dangerous or misleading content and are protecting no one. Stop hiding behind 'small creators mental health' like you think you're doing anything. We can all still see how many dislikes our video got. Our mental health is not protected in any fashion. The only thing you change is the public facing, and we know why you did this."

"When I was 12, my videos were dislike bombed. Not many liked them. Sure, it hurt, but I matured since then. I matured, because I was able to respond to the negative feedback my content was receiving. If not it, I would be falsely convinced of my perceived non-existant greatness. Dislikes are key to personal and content growth."

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@theHIDninja β€’ 17 days

Okay, so now there is no way for me to tell if a video is a waste of my time or not.

Fuck Youtube. they need a competitor.

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@latitudan β€’ 16 days

There were videos with a exact issue I am searching for in the title. When the ratio to dislike to like is huge I can know that they didn't address the issue properly in the video. When they take away this functionality, I have to watch and waste my time or refer comments(if the creator didn't disable that, which is another red flag)

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@arwhatever β€’ 17 days

Make the like names invisible across Twitter.

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@davewasthere β€’ 16 days

What's stupid, is (as long as comments are enabled) all someone needs to say is "I dislike/hate/loathe this video" and everyone who would have previously disliked the video, upvotes that comment (perhaps as well as...).

Although I guess it all counts as engagement, so win-win as far as YT are concerned.

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@dmitrygr β€’ 17 days

I bet this is at least partially a result of their β€œawards show” where they awarded themselves all the awards getting a record amount of dislikes in record time, publicly embarrassing them.

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@m0zg β€’ 17 days

To be re-introduced once a Republican president is elected in 2024. /s

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@etchalon β€’ 17 days

I've never found dislike counts to be any more useful than letting me know someone said something some partisan group is unhappy about.

Like counts / view ratios tell me if a video is worth watching.

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@irthomasthomas β€’ 17 days


@spiznnx β€’ 17 days

This seems like it could have unintended effects of making the experience worse for creators. Instead of getting dislikes, maybe now they'll get mean comments instead.

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