Hacker News Re-Imagined

Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

  • 1712 points
  • 6 months ago

  • @sdan
  • Created a post

Elizabeth Holmes found guilty


@aagha 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Bad Blood by Carreyrou is a fanstastic read! - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37976541-bad-blood

Reply


@olliej 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

So… just defrauding the rich investors, nothing on the people who’s blood she claimed to be testing.

Reply


@666lumberjack 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Beta on how long it is before Elon Musk is in the same position?

Reply


@Gatsky 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I just want to comment about her appearance, which I think has been carefully contrived during the trial. When she was CEO she dressed like Steve Jobs, had tightly bound hair and an intense look with an unwilling smile. During the trial she has let her hair down, dropped the turtlenecks and adopted a soft, perpetually distracted look. Maybe this reflects some inner transformation but I suspect none of it is accidental.

Reply


@NikolaeVarius 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

    Count one of conspiring to commit wire fraud against investors in Theranos between 2010 and 2015: Guilty.

    Count two of conspiring to commit wire fraud against patients who paid for Theranos’s blood testing services between 2013 and 2016: Not guilty.

    Count three of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $99,990 on or about Dec. 30, 2013: No verdict.

    Count four of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $5,349,900 on or about Dec. 31, 2013: No verdict.

    Count five of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $4,875,000 on or about Dec. 31, 2013: No verdict.

    Count six of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $38,336,632 on or about Feb. 6, 2014: Guilty.

    Count seven of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $99,999,984 on or about Oct. 31, 2014:Guilty.

    Count eight of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $5,999,997 on or about Oct. 31, 2014: Guilty.

    Count nine was dropped.

    Count 10 of wire fraud in connection with a patient’s laboratory blood test results on or about May 11, 2015: Not guilty.

    Count 11 of wire fraud in connection with a patient’s laboratory blood test results on or about May 16, 2015: Not guilty.

    Count 12 of wire fraud in connection with a wire transfer of $1,126,661 on or about Aug. 3, 2015: Not guilty.

Reply


@pers0n 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

She'll probably get 6 months in jail and then another year on house arrest.

Reply


@rdtwo 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Why isn’t she in jail right now? She’s doing at least a few years hopefully the full 80 but probably not.

Reply


@cryptica 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Kind of interesting how she attends court without any makeup and with scruffy hair; she looks unrecognizable. I guess this is done intentionally to distance herself from her previous identity and also her crimes.

Reply


@madiator 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

In case you haven't read already, I highly recommend reading Bad Blood.

Reply


@zinekeller 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

CNBC says that "Jury finds Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes guilty on four charges in criminal fraud trial" while confirming that there's deadlock in three charges: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/03/jurors-in-holmes-trial-remai...

Reply


@causality0 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

What's the takeaway from this other than "killing people by giving phony medical test results is just fine, but don't you dare anger the wealthy"?

Reply


@dbcooper 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙



@volkanvardar 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

For anyone interested in more detail and the full story, Bad Blood[1] by John Carreyrou is a really gripping book. It was also in Bill Gates' list in 2018[2][3].

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37976541-bad-blood

[2] https://www.gatesnotes.com/about-bill-gates/holiday-books-20...

[3] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Bad-Blood

Reply


@xqcgrek2 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

How much time is she looking at?

Reply


@peter_retief 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I would like to buy Theranos, it is a great concept and will be possible in the future. How much do they want for the company?

Reply


@paulpauper 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

A $100 million wire transfer. Is this literally how people invest in start-ups, just wiring huge sums of money to someone they do not know , on a promise/hope.

that just seems so reckless on so many levels

Reply


@travelhead 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Elizabeth could have saved herself many of these charges by telling investors she was pivoting to using 3rd party testing devices, reducing the number of tests, and transitioning to a business model involving venous blood drawing as a service with lower costs and better branding. Instead, she decided to continue to lie to investors even though she knew her tech didn’t work as she represented.

Reply


@zxexz 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

It looks like Balwani's trial is scheduled for next year - is there any reason why they would have the two trials so far apart? Is this common in cases such as these?

Reply


@latenightcoding 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Question: could Holmes have avoided all of this by pivoting to something else and not losing investors money. It is extremely common for startups to exaggerate their tech just to later pivot to something else without any repercussions.

Reply


@ramesh31 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

If she gets anything less than life in prison, it will effectively answer the question of "how many years of prison would you do for a billion dollars?". I'm guessing an absolute max of 5 in a minimum security white collar facility.

Reply


@madrox 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Looking at the Theranos comment history on HN is a journey [1]. From the very beginning there was a lot of skepticism.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=30&prefix=false&q...

Reply


@VWWHFSfQ 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

So she was found guilty on 4 charges. Not guilty on 4 charges. And no verdict on the remaining 3 charges. So does she have to get another trial on the remaining 3?

Reply


@rvz 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

It has been definitively admitted. Now we see the vultures tearing this fraudster apart and you what?

   That is good, and it is absolutely magnificent.
Since many have gotten away with it, She is now the first of many that have been caught and need to be investigated and the other exit scams of this decade to be unveiled before the scammers race to the exit with a mountain of cash.

So who is next?

Reply


@gameswithgo 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I wonder what parallels we can draw between Holmes and her blood testing, with Elon and full self driving. I suppose Elon has covered his bases by saying it is still a work in progress while charging for it, but he has also been saying it will be ready in about a year or two since 2016.

I think the FSD research Tesla is doing is interesting, but man I would rather all of that money gone into a carbon fiber roof or something on my model 3 instead!

Reply


@irthomasthomas 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

"FDA has concluded that the Theranos test and technology is eligible for waiver under CLIA. The waiver means FDA determined the Theranos test and technology is reliable and accurate..."

That aged well. https://web.archive.org/web/20160320011355/https://www.thera...

Reply


@peter_retief 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I believe what they proposed is possible but they were unable to deliver not being technical founders. If they had been technical founders they would have promised a product that could be delivered. This all besides the ethical issues of faking blood tests!

Reply


@nerevarthelame 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results.

Well done to medman77 who had the most direct rebuke: "The company is all hot air. They have a board full of retired military figure heads that have no experience in medical devices or retail services. Additionally, they do not have any products to show. Look at their patents. They are all very general and broad. There has been NO FDA CLEARANCE for anything they are doing, which raises legal questions. Speaking of legal, search for lawsuits they are involved in. Their core technology is not even theirs. They stole it from someone else."

Reply


@cryptica 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

On one hand, the victims of her scams wanted her guilty, on the other, I suspect that those who are trying to dismantle the judicial branch of government wanted her to be not guilty. Good to see the legal system is holding up.

Reply


@relaunched 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Holmes is a member of the uber-elite, upper .01%. Prof Gardner, in this article - https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/03/she-saw-through-eliza... refers to Theranos as raising friends and family style funding. I guess her friends and family, given the circles she travels in, have a lot more money than most of ours.

I've written about this a bit, but Elizabeth Holmes comes from 2 dynastic families. On one side, the Holmes family, whose name is directly tied to medicine / hospitals / clinics across Ohio. On the same side, a little bit farther up, is the Fleischmann family. Those yeast packets and jars that are in your cupboard...yes, that Fleischmann.

Reply


@sharkweek 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious).

Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a feeling this verdict is going to spice things up in the short term.

All that to be said, if you've got any authentic Theranos gear hiding in storage please do let me know, I'm a motivated buyer.

For those curious as one example: Nothing raises a few eyebrows more than a note written on Lehman Brothers letterhead with a Purdue Pharma OxyContin pen with the dosage pullout.

Reply


@thoms_a 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Hmmm, I wonder if any Goldman Sachs execs did time for all of the proven fraud they committed, which led to a stock market crash?

Nope. They just got bailed out by the Fed, and given bonuses. This is how you know which profession runs the American empire. It sure as hell isn't tech CEOs.

Reply


@rajacombinator 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

All the VCs should be held complicit as well.

Reply


@MarkMc 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Someone mentioned that Holmes will likely get a relatively light sentence because she is an attractive white woman.

I've read there is good evidence that black people get harsher sentences than white people and men get harsher sentences than women, other factors being equal. I suspect there is also evidence attractive people get lighter sentences than ugly people.

The current system seems like a clear-cut violation of the US constitution's Equal Protection clause. So why doesn't an organisation like the ACLU take legal action to force all sentencing to be done by a judge who is unaware of the race, sex and attractiveness of the defendant?

Reply


@petilon 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Some founders "fake it till you make it", and this news should serve as a cautionary tale.

Reply


@Carlee 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Can someone share some light on what's covered in the wire transfers?

Reply


@sidcool 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Trevor Milton better be scared. His was a bigger fraud

Reply


@fnord77 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

why are the charges "wire fraud" and not just "defrauding investors" ?

is there some technicality at play here?

Reply


@irthomasthomas 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

On the subject of lying tech CEOs, will Musk ever pay for his sins?

"I feel very confident predicting 1 million autonomous robo-taxis for Tesla next year" - E. Musk 2019

Did he ever atone for this, or is he still kicking the can down the road?

Edit: I know, I know... It's not a crime until it is. Let a jury decide if Musk lied, or if he genuinely believed that his company was capable of producing 1 million robotaxis in a year. I would love to know what his staff where telling him that would lead him to this "very confident" prediction.

Reply


@TigeriusKirk 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

The initial HN discussion of Theranos in 2013

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

Reply


@fortran77 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Good! Now indict the board members and the Stanford professor-consultants.

Reply


@evancoop 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

The relevant detail, in my mind, is not whether Holmes deserves punishment, or even how much. The relevant detail is how the judge ultimately sentences Holmes, and more importantly, on what basis the judge selects the upper or lower range of possible sentencing outcomes. Considering that BS, stretching of capabilities, and so on are commonplace in the startup world, the point isn't whether Holmes crossed the line (she did), but rather, how exactly that line is repositioned by this precedent.

There's the easy story: "Young, ambitious wunderkind founder falls from grace." And the hard story: "Here's what might be relevant for future founders."

Reply


@manaman 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

From a quick look, no patients were harmed? Am I missing something?

Reply


@asah 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Of course she's guilty and should get a long prison sentence.

But is it realistic to assume founders will self-police given the pressures? Or should we expect investors to look at these BIG WARNING SIGNS and do more due diligence??? Seriously, having no subject matter experts on the board etc is ridiculous and all the valley insiders knew it. One call to her thesis advisor is all the due diligence they needed to do.

Put another way, is the next Elizabeth Holmes going to be deterred by her prison sentence? Was she deterred by Bernie Madoff or 100s of others?

Again obviously they just wanted to nail her on something and didn't have enough evidence for the reason crime, which was lying to end users about their healthcare.

And obviously it's illegal and bad and wrong to lie to investors duh.

I'm just saying that perhaps we shouldn't use self-policing or the courts to solve the startup-investor-fraud problem because they're (a) ineffective, (b) we have other & better ways to solve this, (c) solution b leads to the more efficient market and therefore the greater innovation and therefore wins.

Reply


@onislandtime 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

One of the surprising things in this saga is how Walgreens partnered with Theranos. I actually had a blood test done in the downtown Palo Alto Walgreens. The results were obviously wrong so I had to redo them in a real lab. Any elementary school child can do a science experiment comparing the blood test results of Theranos with a standard lab. Walgreens deliberately failed to do due diligence because of some type of corruption. They contributed to the fraud and they should be investigated.

Reply


@holografix 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

It’s fascinating, albeit useless as it’s all speculation, to consider Holmes’ mentality and tactics.

As a young and attractive woman she carefully manicured her appearance to resemble Steve Jobs and consistently altered her tone of voice (!) to sound deeper. To investors she was the disarmingly beautiful genius. These old grey men should be so lucky as to get her attention and be part of her myth!

To a much older, rich, well connected, megalomaniac controlling man she was the young disciple. Ready to inflate his sense of self by “needing” direction and castigation. Not to mention the sexual dynamic.

To the jury she’s pregnant mother, victim of a culture that only rewards winning and the fragile, abused partner of an abusive man. She never meant any of it, it’s all a big misunderstanding!

Neumann has nothing on Holmes!

Reply


@kyleblarson 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I hadn't followed Theranos much until the trial but listened to the American Scandal podcast about it. I find the narration to be a bit cheesy but it was pretty informative for just a few hours of listening while exercising: https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/theranos-startup/id143...

Reply


@Apocryphon 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Looking forward to JLaw's portrayal of Holmes in Adam McKay's Apple Studios adaptation of Bad Blood. Hope they pick up from where the book ended and cover this trial.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/jennifer-lawrence-elizabe...

Reply


@jonwachob91 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results.

Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans.

But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, they were using lab techniques that we have known to be inaccurate for decades. She knowingly sold Walgreens on 1 test, and then performed a different test.

I need to sit down and properly inform myself about how the prosecutors fucked that up so badly.

Reply


@paxys 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Guilty of taking a billion+ dollars from rich and influential people who couldn't bother to do the bare minimum due diligence into their investments due to greed and FOMO.

Not guilty of endangering thousands of lives by running fraudulent and inaccurate tests under sub-par lab conditions.

Our justice system is such a farce.

Reply


@wombatmobile 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

> Holmes was the poster child of Silicone Valley hubris

Holmes was convicted of fraud, which is a crime.

If hubris was a crime, the meek would inherit the earth, and Silicone Valley real estate would be affordable.

Reply


@chaxor 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

It's interesting that it took so long for this to finally be resolved, such that now - the technological goals that they had may actually be surmountable soon. I wonder what Theranos 2.0 will be called when it cross up in a few years. FBhealth ? BioBezosBot ? AppleSeq ? GoogleBlood ? NetStix ?

Reply


@dav_Oz 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

For somebody unfamiliar on how start-ups on that scale "work", I suppose this edge case offers some valuable insight.

I more often than not had a hard time understanding what some well funded start-ups I had contact with are actually up to. From personal accounts of the people involved, the common modus operandi seemed to be "let the money stream not ebb and we will figure something out in the meanwhile" as supposed to "you finally do not have to be preoccupied about the finances and can start focusing on solving the problems at hand".

I wonder how efficient the system really is, purely in enabling indivduals to develop their ideas into some form of actualization and even if the "start-up" fails completely on its promise. And also how much room to appreciate the efforts made so one can at least activley learn from mistakes/misconceptions made.

Elon Musk is an interesting example as it illustrates that there seems to be a goldilock zone of over the top "predictions", a hypnotic dance with investors and the public: "How long for X taking place?" Aside from his PR, at least he delivers on some actualized forms of engineering feats.

As the pendulum swings from government funding to private funding, the high concentration of wealth ("resources to enable") on either side make it prone to that scale of fraud.

Reply


@qwerty456127 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Although I acknowledge the fact of her wrongdoing and that such has to be prosecuted so others would "think twice" before committing a fraud (healthcare-related fraud especially) I, to be sincere, understandably feel zero real anger to her - because the whole thing happened rather far away and didn't affect anybody I know.

At the same time I feel genuinely curious about her thoughts and emotions as she unarguably is a formidable lady - scamming so many supposedly smart and competent people obviously requires outstanding logical and emotional intelligence (note emotional intelligence doesn't necessarily imply being good, it means being good at observing, understanding and managing emotions of yourself and others, whatever a purpose, good or evil), understanding of the market, society and people.

This makes me sad she herself never wrote a book and if and when she will (perhaps she'll have time for that in the prison) she is hardly going to write anything but "I'm so sorry" bullshit.

Reply


@Threeve303 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Still confused about her voice... Was that her real voice or what? Also, and perhaps more importantly, would the grift have worked at all without it?

Reply


@AlbertCory 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Hard sciences are hard. We have it easy in software.

That's why her "lesson" from SV entrepeneurs about "fake it til you make it" did not apply. They weren't doing medicine.

Revolutionizing an industry where there are already standards, laws, people's health at stake, and government bureaucracies is WAY harder than what most of her heroes did.

Reply


@rTX5CMRXIfFG 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

These days, whenever someone is being presented as an absolute villain (as in the case of Holmes), comments sections tend to have not a few posts about how the things they’ve done, from a different vantage point, are understandable, or morally ambiguous and not objectively evil, or even amoral. I’m completely opposed to what she has done, but could there be any reason why we all seem to be unanimous that she is objectively evil?

Reply


@smm11 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Zero sympathy from me. I hope she burns.

Far, far too many of these charlatans out there. I used to admire many, thinking I wasn't working hard enough, trying enough, so I busted my rear for decades, career-wise and activity-wise.

They're all bluffing. Lying. Stealing. Cheating. Eff them all.

Reply


@ineedasername 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.)

Especially because it was those same directors' reputations that likely helped the fraud go on so long. There was probably a fair number of skeptics who thought "Surely they wouldn't put their name on something like this if there was nothing there". I doubt Kissinger or the people around him want the last of his legacy to be punctuated by Theranos.

I'll be honest: I kind of thought the same thing. That a breakthrough in science of this magnitude with so much silence around its details was strange, especially in the face of some expert skepticism. But the idea that Henry Kissinger etc. would attach themselves to it without compelling evidence made me more or less shrug my shoulders and move on.

Reply


@bg117 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I remember my ex Manager who was from MIT taking the name of Theranos before it was in the news for all things bad and how they are revolutionizing healthcare. Looks like hype is how the whole thing is depending on.

Reply


@socrates1998 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I am glad she was found guilty, but there are a few concerns. First, she was only convicted of lying to her investors, not the actual patients, which is laughable.

Second, she is supposed to get up to 20 years for EACH of the counts (they will be served concurrently so she won't get 80 years). And I am curious as to how much time she will actually serve.

Third, what kind of sociopath has a baby in the middle of a trial where she could go to jail and not see the kid for years???

Fourth, what kind of person meets her, googles her, thinks "it's all bullshit", then proceeds to get in a relationship with her AND have a kid with her. Man this woman is a con artist.

She should get 20 years for the lies she spread and damage potentially did. Messing with people's blood tests for CANCER. So wrong.

Reply


@richardfey 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Is 'Theranos' still copyrighted / trademarked, or can it be freely used now?

Reply


@bigodbiel 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I am all for “fake it till you make it” specially with “sophisticated” private investors’ capital. But what she, and her enablers, did with their clients’ health was criminal.

Reply


@duxup 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

What always amazed me is they had nothing… nothing that could do the thing they claimed. To the point they used competitors machines to produce results.

Pretty amazing.

Reply


@ferdowsi 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos.

It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died.

https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i...

> How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon

> She represents the part of entrepreneurship that is long-term dedication, when nobody's watching

>... That kind of walk-before-you-talk behavior is refreshing and respectable in today's hype-strewn entrepreneurial landscape.

Reply


@csours 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I'm reading the jury instructions here: https://cand.uscourts.gov/wp-content/uploads/cases-of-intere...

Would the jury get this document with the blue and yellow highlighting??

> Language proposed by Ms. Holmes, and objected to by the government, is highlighted in blue. Language proposed by the government, and objected to by Ms. Holmes, is highlighted in yellow.

Reply


@textcortex 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Anyone got suprised?

Reply


@maxcan 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

DAE remember people dismissing the original critical media coverage as being sexist and just trying to take down a successful woman in tech? Wonder if we'll hear any apologies to those authors..

Reply


@chrononaut 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

For those wanting to see the Theranos story as it unfolded from HN's perspective, here's a summary of some of the major threads over the years until early 2016:

- 2013/09/08 - Theranos (theranos.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349 (113 comments)

- 2014/06/26 - This CEO is out for blood (fortune.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7951019 (97 comments)

- 2015/04/26 - Scientists skeptical about Theranos blood test (businessinsider.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9440595 (94 comments)

- 2015/07/03 - FDA approves Theranos test for HSV-1 (fortune.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9823638 (24 comments)

- 2015/09/21 - How Playing the Long Game Made Elizabeth Holmes a Billionaire (inc.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252183 (82 comments)

- 2015/10/15 - Theranos Has Struggled with Blood Tests (wsj.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391313 (87 comments)

- 2015/10/16 - Theranos Dials Back Lab Tests at FDA's Behest (wsj.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10397149 (86 comments)

- 2015/10/18 - Theranos Trouble: A First Person Account (mondaynote.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10408811 (45 comments)

- 2015/10/27 - Theranos didn't work with the huge drug company it supposedly made money from (theverge.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10459905 (113 comments)

- 2015/10/28 - The FDA's notes from its visit to Theranos' labs don't look good (businessinsider.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10462678 (97 comments)

- 2015/10/29 - Theranos, Facing Criticism, Says It Has Changed Board Structure (nytimes.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10471152 (65 comments)

- 2015/12/20 - "Theranos Founder Faces a Test of Technology, and Reputation" (nytimes.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10765562 (102 comments)

- 2015/12/28 - "At Theranos, Many Strategies and Snags" (wsj.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799261 (126 comments)

- 2016/01/25 - "Problems Found at Theranos Lab" (wsj.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10965167 (76 comments)

- 2016/01/27 - "The letter the Feds sent to Theranos" (vox-cdn.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10983747 (192 comments)

Reply


@abyssiana 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Collectors want some bits of Theranos goods, the croud of compatriots judging woman’s decission to have a child in tough times, the level of hateness is destroying all the metrics. I hope despite all this noice all investors that were sweating their money on politics lies, despite all brainless jodgmental underdogs she will get the minimum punishment.

Reply


@yawaworht1978 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

This is dated Nov 2013 and it's a hilarious read.

People from the fields have laughed about her and Theranos for a long time.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/theranos.1043576/

Reply


@rgdsmtn 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Federal law can't regulate commerce unless it's interstate commerce. So the wire in the wire fraud part is the handy jurisdiction claw so that this is prosecuted by SEC.

Reply


@yalogin 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I have to say I am a little surprised. I expected her to not be convicted and end up with millions of her scammed money and slowly make her way into the entrepreneurial circle. Glad she is convicted though.

Reply


@beebmam 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Sending fraudulent people to jail for a long, long time is fundamental to running a healthy society. One of the reasons the US is a decent place to live compared to other countries is because we actually prosecute frauds and criminals here.

Let's start seeing some other countries around the world start doing this, like India, Russia, and China. My 80 year old mother was recently tricked into wiring money by Indian scammers threatening her. I'm really sick of this shit.

Reply


@thyrox 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Sorry this is for my own curiosity because I know nothing about US legal system, but I was watching this documentary recently about Bikram Choudhury, a yoga guru who was being prosecuted for several sex crimes and also had an arrest warrant issued against him. But in the documentary he successfully managed flee to Thailand then Mexico. They even managed to track him but he just said fuck off and that was that. Did not face any jail time and now he is back to conducting his Yoga sessions.

My point is what stopped Elizabeth Holmes from doing something like this? She surely knew what was coming her way and she is kinda unscrupulous too, so why didn't she run?

Reply


@andi999 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Could anybody explain why this is wire fraud and not normal fraud?

Reply


@tptacek 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here:

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu...

They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct.

Here's the indictment:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download

Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's she was found guilty on were in amounts ranging from $100k to $100MM(!).

It should be possible to come up with a better guess than the New York Times' "20 years per count, but likely served concurrently".

Reply


@ck2 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

This was a theranos pricing sheet

https://i.imgur.com/ukWZMDn.png

If only it was reality and we might never have that pricing

Compare to labtestingapi.com which is the cheapest quest reseller, $20 vitamin D test vs $52

https://www.labtestingapi.com/product/questassured-25-hydrox...

$10 B12 vs $39, etc.

The biggest crime she committed was ending any chance at a startup with affordable pricing in the future, no-one would believe/invest so now we are back to a duopoly in the USA (quest vs labcorp)

Maybe in a decade, or two, we'll have our own mini-lab in a box in our homes for outselves and pets, maybe it will be on a subscription pay-per-month software model, maybe 100 years we'll have it on our phones like a tricorder.

Reply


@Overtonwindow 6 months

Replying to @sdan 🎙

I'm genuinely surprised. I thought after seven days it would be deadlocked on everything, particularly being silicon valley, successful, beautiful woman, I just didn't have a lot of faith in the jury. I guess this is a very mixed verdict.

Reply


About Us

site design / logo © 2022 Box Piper