Hacker News Re-Imagined

Why can’t I play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on my new Intel CPU platform?

  • 618 points
  • 11 days ago

  • @freemint
  • Created a post

Why can’t I play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on my new Intel CPU platform?


@Havoc 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

DRM - broken by design

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@jankal 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

It's the same problem I was facing trying to play Netflix Ultra HD on my AMD CPU. Fortunately Netflix now also works without Intel SGX so I can watch my stuff on my PCs now.

On the other hand: It is still not possible to play Amazon Prime Ultra HD on AMD CPUs and probably also on the new Intel 12th gen as of now.

The one thing I hate about these limitations is the amount of detailed knowledge that is required to know what is happening. As an average consumer I would have never thought of such bullshit. I only read about the problem wehn I had already bought my CPU...

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@bubblethink 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Didn't realize that cyberlink was still around. Their market share must be minuscule these days. No laptops ship with optical drives and it would be rare to add one to a desktop build these days too.

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@SavantIdiot 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

You know who can stop this?

You.

The only reason Hollywood has power is because you buy DVDs and go to movies.

If you stopped, Hollywood would go broke.

Quibbling about Intel or legislation is pointless. Just don't buy their product and you'll bring them to their knees.

"Ultra HD Blu-ray" ... There is so much marketing BS in that phrase. The brain washing goes deep. Pick up a book. Get a hobby. Go outside. Put down the passive entertainment. Send a real message if you don't like all this DRM shit. You don't NEED to park your ass on a couch and be entertained.

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@anthk 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Ah, 2004 with libdvdcss again.

Thanks, companies. Thanks, companies. You are the perfect P2P marketing advisors.

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@dtx1 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Anyone interested in an invite to torrentleech.org? No DRM there...

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@solarkraft 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

It's almost as if piracy is to only way to not constantly be messed with.

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@perakojotgenije 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

A gentle XKCD reminder that you can only be sure that you'll be able to play your media in the future if you pirate it.

https://xkcd.com/488/

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@sergiotapia 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

It's such a shame paying customers get shafted over and over and over again.

I went through the whole piracy gamut including torrents, usenet, radarr, sonarr, plex, emby, jellyfin - you name it I tried it. The best solution I'm using today and try to keep it hush is Stremio + RealDebrid.

https://i.ibb.co/Mn6VSvq/image.png

No piracy ISP letter risk, no torrenting, just a direct download from one single server that keeps you private. Like having a Plex with _everything_ on it.

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@carlycue 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Tim Cook: “This is how I win”

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@dschuetz 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Whoever still buys Blu-rays anyway? Isn't it a dead market already?

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@PaulHoule 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Secure enclaves aren't necessarily a bad idea but SGX always seemed like a bad design.

This follows a long term trend of decoupling between the consumer electronics and the computer industry.

For instance CD-ROM and DVD drives were ubiquitous for personal computers but Blu-Ray never really caught on. For a long time Windows came with DVD players but Blu-Ray was always a third-party option.

Today there is a divergence between video codecs used for consumer electronics (HEVC) and computers (AV1, etc.) Some of it is fighting over royalties, some of it is the industries having different visions.

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@TedShiller 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Money

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@knaik94 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I am curious about the current state of playback of Dolby vision files. I know that the Nvidia shield tv can playback videos and there is the movies and tv windows app that can tone map to SDR if you download the Dolby experience app. But has there been meaningful progress for vlc mpv potplayer or direct playback from pc to tv? It seems like Dolby Vision has won over HDR10+ in the HDR video format war.

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@phoronixrly 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

A gentle reminder to people that work at companies that produce/implement DRM:

We live at a time with high demand for developers. Wouldn't your talents be of better use at some other company - working on something not ultimately hindering your users?

It's OK to quit your job on moral grounds, and now is the best time ever to do so.

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@sundvor 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

"Dear latest gen Intel users, please upgrade from Cyberlink to BitTorrent".

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@LeoNatan25 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Similar thing happened with DVDs long time ago, when newer DVD drives could not be used to decode older DVD disks, due to incompatibility with early CSS systems.

Meanwhile, the torrents, with Dolby Vision or HDR10, play just fine everywhere, without any hardware restrictions, any software arbitrary nonsense restrictions, etc. I’ll continue buying those at the torrent tracker shop.

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@mmastrac 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I forgot how bad the physical media world is. I gave up ages ago and found alternative ways to view media and it just works.

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@mavhc 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

At least all this investment in DRM was worth it and it stopped movies and tv shows and games and music and books being available on pirate websites

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@Nextgrid 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

As usual, legitimate customers get shafted while piracy thrives.

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@satysin 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

And shit like this is why everything I have is the video and audio ripped from the Blu-ray and stored on my own Plex server.

The original blu-ray video and audio that I can stream anywhere in my home or even over the net should I wish (although for internet streaming I use a smaller encoded version obviously).

Honestly it is like the movie studios want you to pirate their content by making it so difficult to watch what you legally own.

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@ohcomments 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Because AMD is life! (Joke)

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@dm319 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I'm glad my naive self learnt this more than 20 years ago when it was apparently normal to apply DRM to ripped CDs on windows. I vaguely remembered that it would allow you to copy it up to three times, but I don't remember the details. I think it ripped to a windows audio format.

A few years later I upgraded my machine and lost access to these files. I guess these days I understand more about keys and how they work, but back then I was just someone who had paid rightfully for my music and as a result losing the collection a few years later.

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@miohtama 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Is there any background information anywhere why SGX is being phased out?

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@LeoPanthera 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

MakeMKV (US$60 for Windows, Mac, or Linux) can rip UHD Blu-Ray discs with the appropriate drive, removing the encryption in the process:

https://www.makemkv.com/buy/

Some drives need to have their firmware flashed in order to enable ripping of UHD discs:

https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=19113

I'm not affiliated with the product other than having used it to rip my entire disc library. It can also rip DVDs and regular blu-rays.

Once ripped, they can be played back with VLC, mpv, or derivatives. (On Macs, IINA is very good.)

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@halo 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I'm convinced the inability to easily play Blu-Rays and similar on computers is a major contributor as to why the format hasn't had the same traction as DVDs and may have accelerated the removal of disc drives from devices. Such a self-defeating move.

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@joshstrange 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I'll never understand the stupidity of studios/streaming platforms (DRM/Widevine). DRM only hurts legit customers, period. Any TV Show or Movie you want to watch is going to be on Torrents/Usenet within hours at most of release, their DRM has completely and utterly failed to stop piracy, instead it punishes paying users.

I still remember a good decade ago getting a DVD from Redbox and trying to watch it with some friends. Tons of unskippable ads, FBI warnings, etc. Partway through the hell of enforced watching I started a torrent, before we got to the title screen it was done and we watched the downloaded version instead.

Furthermore, look at the state of TV today with all the streaming platforms. I'm excluding "live" TV because I can't imagine why anyone would subject themselves to that cesspool. Having to jump between streaming services/UIs/UX/etc is terrible. "What platform was that show on?", "Wait, weren't we watching this on service X? That's why it lost our place in the season", "Oh, did they remove Y show?", and the list goes on.

It's incredibly sad the the best TV experience is some combo of Plex/Jellyfin+*arr-type software. Music piracy is practically non-existent in my friend groups (the same could not be said 10+ years ago), Spotify and friends did that. Not any laws, not any enforcement, not any crackdowns, etc, no a /paid/ service beat music piracy. Why? Because it was better, it was easier, and it had everything. As long as we only have a choice of disjointed services and platforms TV/Movies will never be better than piracy.

Things like Amazon Channels and Apple TV (yes the app, not the device, not the service, come on Apple...) are somewhat of a step in a better direction but Plex is still bar none. No ads, instant playback, no BS.

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@FalconSensei 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

as always, if you want to watch something it's easier when you torrent it than when you pay for it

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@zimmerfrei 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

SGX seems to have pivoted from DRM use cases (in consumer CPUs) to confidential computing (in server CPUs) [0]. Is that so? Or is the Intel server product line just lagging behind and it will be removed from those too? Will Intel replace it fully with something like AMD SEV?

As a technology, SGX became interesting the moment Intel added the ability for anybody to launch enclaves (and not only the anointed companies that signed NDAs with Intel) and especially when support for it landed in Linux.

Assuming Intel somehow manages to fix its security problem to a decent level, is SGX as a technology worth learning still?

[0] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/security/confidentia...

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@josephcsible 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Remember how Stallman et al complained loudly about "Trusted Computing" technology like SGX, and everyone ignored them and accepted it anyway?

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@m_eiman 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Steve Jobs: "Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt. It's great to watch the movies, but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we're waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace."

https://www.engadget.com/2008-10-14-steve-jobs-calls-blu-ray...

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@activitypea 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I don't understand why the film industry bothers with DRM. Their product is fundementally easy to pirate, and always will be.

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@jmrm 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Do you know what streaming platform demonstrated since long ago? When you give an easier access to people to consume media legally, people do it that way. This is the complete opposite.

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@user_7832 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

> For users who use an older compatible platform and want to keep the Ultra HD Blu-ray playback compatibility on the PC and with PowerDVD, we suggest you continue using the 7th - 10th generation Core i series of Intel CPUs and motherboards that support the Intel SGX feature. You should also consider not updating the OS (e.g., upgrading to Windows 11) and related Intel drivers to the latest versions in order to keep the Intel SGX feature from being removed from your PC. You should also ensure your platform meets all the other playback requirements of Ultra HD Blu-ray as the playback solution: https://www.cyberlink.com/support/faq-content.do?id=19144

Wow, the official solution is to use old hardware and software. I'm sure that's a great idea :)

Sarcasm aside, I wonder when corporations will realize that until they offer proper easy and affordable solutions, people have little incentives to actually jump through the official loops and simply not pirate content. I hope to see this realization sometime in my life, but maybe I'm too optimistic.

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@InsomniacL 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

   You should also consider not updating the OS
just wow...

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@Ratiofarmings 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

It's like they're asking us to pirate everything.

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@hlandau 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Good.

The desire to support the unreasonable demands of the film industry here has led to the perversion of the x86 architecture to add all sorts of peculiar DRM functionalities, and has precluded firmware components from being made open source; as I have previously written about here [1], which links to forum posts by an AMD engineer:

  I'm sure I don't have to explain to you that the essense of DRM requirements in the OEM PC market is that the owner must NOT have full control of the machine if that includes being able to tamper with or disable any of the DRM mechanisms.
At the end of the day if Intel was going to support this kind of thing AMD also was pretty much going to be required to make such a deal with the devil, or have a product that can't compete with Intel. If Intel is losing interest in supporting video DRM, perhaps due to shifts away from physical media, it's likely to have a positive effect on both Intel's platform as well as other platforms which feel the need to support the same DRM platforms.

[1] https://www.devever.net/~hl/intelme

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@unfocused 10 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Over the past many years, the "record" button was disappearing, and now the "play" button is taking a hit!

I'm still holding on to an old Asus USB blu ray drive, although I haven't used it much lately, and I got an old NAD C715 receiver, that has USB recording, so I can record my FM radio shows, or anything really being input (streaming audio), straight to MP3 so I can keep the shows. (yes, I know about podcasts, but not all of them are available).

Of course, the NAD was limited to 117 minutes per mp3, and when I contact them, they said it was due to memory issues, but I think it was due to people wanting to burn it on a CD.

Either way, the analog world is still so much easier to play and record anything for audio at least, and it looks like the video world is moving away from physical media. Is 8K blu ray even going to happen? If not, it's all digital streams from this point on.

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@hnlmorg 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

I've said it before and I'll say it again: DRM only hurts your legitimate customers. Anyone who had any interest in pirating your content will find a way around DRM -- whether that's a technical solution or whether it's just downloading a copy from someone else who has the technical knowhow to bypass DRM.

However it's your legitimate customers, the ones who actually paid for your product, who suffer.

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@mrweasel 11 days

Replying to @freemint 🎙

Can someone explain why PowerDVD needs the SGX feature? Intel clearly doesn't see it as being useful, or did they replace it with something better and Cyberlink just doesn't want to upgrade?

I mean it's reasonable that Cyberlink shaw the SGX as a way of implementing DRM, but I don't believe it's the only way they could possibly do so.

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