Hacker News Re-Imagined

US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent

  • 2191 points
  • 3 months ago

  • @enraged_camel
  • Created a post

US Senate votes unanimously to make daylight savings time permanent


@elmerfud 3 months

Replying to @enraged_camel 🎙

The hooray the Senate is saving our daylight I'm glad somebody is. Take care so much what would we ever do if they didn't save this daylight for us. Maybe they can take some and put it in a lock box for when we need it most.

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@vohu43 3 months

Would love to see something like this in Europe as well.

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@aunwick 3 months

Where's my screwdriver... I have to remove some DST toggles.

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@ilovesunlight 3 months

The sun sets about 2 hours later during the summer than the winter (depending on lattitude). DST adds an extra hour. In other words, 2/3rds of the "longer day" effect is from earth's tilt, and only 1/3rd is from DST. Seems like some people misunderstand this.

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@humansuit 3 months

As long as they eliminate the constant inane switching back and forth. Sleep disruption is harmful in many ways and all this practice seems to actually do, old wives' tales about farmers and circumstantial localized benefits aside, is induce it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5449130/

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@nullc 3 months

Thank god. Every change causes hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in damages.

Case in point-- my pool cleaning pump that was supposed to run for <1 hour managed to stay running all night long because its shutoff time was during the missing hour. Fortunately, I was aware of the potential issue and checked it and stopped it before there was any damage.

This is in spite of prior years effort to fix this specific issue.

This same kind of dysfunction is repeated all across the country from homes to industry. Thousands of tiny cuts, significant increases in automotive accidents, and a measurable increase in all-cause mortality even excluding the auto accidents.

After this is activated the next damage producing time meddling to fix is leap seconds: Without leapseconds it'll take 4000 years for solar time to drift an hour -- and if people still exist care about solar time agreement with some arbitrary clock numbers at that point they can simply adjust all the timezone definitions by an hour at that point and be good again for thousands of additional years.

Like the DST changes leapseconds cause an enormous amount of disruption and failure and as more of our electronic systems depend on precise synchronization the amount of disruption is only increasing.

While the displacement of leapseconds is shorter, they are more rare than DST changes so systems are less likely to be tested against against them. In particular, we haven't had a negative leapsecond before but they're possible and one will almost certainly happen in the not-distant future if we continue to apply them.

Unlike DST whos times are perfectly predictable except for politics, leapseconds also have to be signaled shortly before they apply. This creates a massive amount of additional complexity and avenues for error and security vulnerabilities. With the development of solid state atomic clocks we could reasonably expect to see affordable timing devices that never need to be set in our lifetimes, -- but they couldn't keep accurate time in a world that used leapseconds.

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@collinthecorgi 3 months

Me work with a US-based boss so he changes our call one-hour earlier when it comes. Kinda confusing to me when it comes to the switching happens. Everytime.

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@ryanmercer 3 months

We didn't even observe it here in Indiana until something like 16 years ago and it is the dumbest thing that I've ever been a part of.

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@9192631770_Hz 3 months

As an avid astronomer and someone diagnosed with SAD, this hurts double. This is going to kill me in the winter.

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@mobilene 3 months

I live in Indiana, where we didn't change time at all until ...was it about 10 years ago? I forget. We were EST year round It was wonderful not to have to deal with DST.

But then we started observing DST and ...glory be, we had sunlight in summer until after 9 pm! That was quite a revelation, and very welcome.

So I'm all for permanent DST. Or putting Indiana in the Central time zone and observing permanent Standard Time.

But that ignores the people on the other side of the Eastern time zone who have a very different experience with when the sun is out.

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@sylware 3 months

I guess this is removed useless complexity.

EU should follow soon hopefully.

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@mazlix 3 months

I guess I'll be "that guy" and say even though it's a disruption I feel a bit sad for the loss of the switch between standard and daylight time.

Yeah it's annoying, but I never found it devastatingly so and it's almost like an extra 2 holidays, I would occasionally get an extra hour once a year (and also lose an hour). I feel a bit sad knowing my child won't get that feeling of dread having to go to school one hour earlier and that boost of going to school one hour later. It feels like the world is become more practical in so many ways, but with it we lose some flavor.

I also love seasons and dislike places that are the climate year round for the same reason - it's a little extra something that breaks up the monotony. At least every time-shift you know that half a year has passed. I really imagine a lot of people will become very nostalgic to having to change clocks throughout the house and then eventually it'll die off and become a completely forgotten relic of the past.

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@aadvark69 3 months

Incoming mass patching of any and all Date/Time libraries

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@foxyv 3 months

I will love it when my sleep schedule isn't disrupted twice a year for no good reason. I can stand waking up in the dark or getting off work in the dark. I just hate having to adjust my circadian in order to reduce candle usage...

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@AngryData 3 months

How about we just abolish the whole debate by moving the clocks 6 hours and making it permanent. Then nobody can complaint about sunrise versus sunset times because they will have to choose new hours to start and close at anyways and they can make it whatever they want. It shouldn't be necessary, but I find this entire debate ridiculous to the extreme. The clocks don't determine your hours of activity and sleep, you and your business does and they can be changed at any time for any or no reason at all.

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@_Nat_ 3 months

Glad that they're trying to simplify it, though it'ld seem obnoxious to maintain a 1-hour addition to the discrepancy between solar-time and clock-time.

It'ld seem far more sensible to have a system that tries to align clock-noon with solar-noon (this is, noon on a [sun-dial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial )). After that, if folks want to change whatever times work/school/etc. are at, awesome, folks can change such times -- as a matter of scheduling, without obfuscating clock-times.

I guess it doesn't matter too much. Computers should be able to re-interpret times, such that different folks in the same community could use different time-systems, while computers would automatically interpret between them for users' convenience. Then, folks could pick the time-system of their choice without regard for what their peers use -- much like no-one cares what font-size others use -- rendering the exact choice of standard a relatively low-level primitive-formatting-detail.

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@site-packages1 3 months

I am an idiot. Would this mean that the time stays as it is right now (after the change from this past weekend)? Because I would love that so much.

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@kalium-xyz 3 months

Man I wish we could get rid of timezones. I know its psychologically impossible for humans to adapt to it but timezones really haven't made sense since clocks became a thing.

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@mdavis6890 3 months

Bad idea.

TimeZones and DST are for humans and physical realities, such as the tilt of the earth and circadian rhythms. And they serve to address these things in a universal, coordinated way rather than asking each of us to change our schedules individually.

During DST, we all agree to start our days, open our business, and adjust our schedules one hour earlier, but without changing our individual clock times.

With DST all year long, can we choose to send our children to school at 9:30 instead of 8:30 during the winter? Should the school have a different winter schedule than a summer one? Or should we just wake up our young children well before dawn and drag them off?

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@ithkuil 3 months

For me the main madness was not DST but the fact that countries (in particular US and EU) start and end DST at different dates.

Honestly, I don't get the complaint about one hour change two Sundays a year.

But the several weeks a year of conflicting meeting bookings in companies that cross the pond is much more infuriating.

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@standardUser 3 months

I love this. I'd even go as far as to support permanent double daylight saving time. Let's get those daylight hours in the evening where they can do some good!

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@chkas 3 months

This moves noon away from the middle of the day, and midnight from the middle of the night.

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@adam_arthur 3 months

How many decades until a universal timezone?

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@dav_Oz 3 months

For anyone wondering how our bodies synchronize to a 24-hour-cycle of the earth, it is primarily through light detected by our eyes. (A great resource for in depth: Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology Andrew Huberman [0])

Apart from cone (RGB) and rod cells (brightness) which are responsible for vision in general (through the "-opsin" proteins: photopsin and rhodopsin, respectively) we also have a more ancient distinctive third class (subconsciously: not taking part in any vision at all) which was first discovered in the light-sensitive skin cells of the African clawed frog in 1998: intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells (ipRGCs), which express their own distinct opsin—melanopsin. Melanopsin cells in mammals are specialized for measuring ambient illumination, contributing to visual discrimination, and driving a wide variety of physiological responses including, but not restricted to: synchronization of circadian clocks to light : dark cycles, regulation of pupil size, modulation of sleep and suppression of pineal melatonin production.[1]

So, even if you are blind those important signalling cells could be still intact. That's why one does not remove the eyes for 'cosmetic' reasons, anymore. This circadian feedback system functions ideally when all three parts of our photoreceptors are working in unison but can still function - albeit to a limited extent - if just one part is available.

To not confuse "noons" we can categorize those in three ways:

(i) solar noon: the time when the sun is at the highest point, at a specific day, at that exact location on earth

(ii) local noon: static time-zones i.e. conventionally set. Normally within +/-2 hours of the solar noon.

(iii) biological noon: adjustable through the light from outside but without any light input it varies from person to person (a "night-day"-cycle could be anywhere from 23.5h - 24.5h long).

There are roughly three time windows in which the photoreceptors of the eyes synchronize our bodies to the outside world, the first and last being the most important ones:

(1) After our physiological temperature minimum, normally about 2 hours before we wake up, naturally. Here the "biological noon" gets set, initially. The window closes some time about that point (I couldn't find a reliable number, anywhere, my guess is about 2 hours in, so about 4 hours after the "temperature minimum" the window closes and one is locked in the "dead" zone, for now).

(2) When the sun sets down. Experiencing the change and reduction in light helps the body to anticipate and prepare for the last window.

(3) In the last phase everything gets reversed, in order to not disrupt melatonin production ("hormone of darkness and sleep initiation") it is vital to not emulate the sun (bright, overhead). The best sources of light are low-hanging warm lights and just enough brightness to feel comfortable. Here, you have to take into account the adjustment period for your eyes. Unfortunately most people aren't used to see adequately and orient themselves in low brightness settings (peripheral vision). Star-gazing could serve as a starting point for some sensibilization.

Those biological insights can be used to balance and fine-tune one's circadian rhythm.

But the most reliable and effective way in getting the system into full gear, is how this elaborate system evolved in the first place: outdoors. Living outside for a couple of days, on some weekends of the months for example, to "reset" can work wonders: a substantial set of people who think of themselves being night owls are actually fooled into it by artificial lights ;) [2]

[0]https://hubermanlab.com/find-your-temperature-minimum-to-def...

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3619500/

[2]https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(13)...

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@basisword 3 months

Can someone explain why they actually care about this? I always see such strong opinions on it but really, why does it matter to you? Most clocks are digital and change automatically these days and otherwise changing your clocks twice a year is such a minor inconvenience. And whether or not the light should be preferred in the morning or vending is probably a pretty even split. Maybe it’s better to get rid of it (I don’t know) but to care about it strongly seems odd. What am I missing?

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@paxys 3 months

Priority 1a – Daylight saving all year.

Priority 1b – Standard time all year.

.... bottomless pit ...

Last possible priority – Switch clocks back and forth twice a year.

It would suck so bad if because of the fighting between the two preferable options we are stuck with the worst one.

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@frankfrankfrank 3 months

It always bothers me that the Congress.gov bill tracker seems to never be up to date. How hard can it be?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623

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@kseistrup 3 months

In Denmark (EU) we are currently switching timezones twice a years, which is a huge PITA for people like me with a sensitive circadian cycle.

The EU has opened for the individual countries in the EU to settle on permanent DST or permanent normal time.

In order of preference I choose:

1. permanent normal time

2. permanent summer time

3. switching between normal time and summer time twice a year

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@mlindner 3 months

Finally! I'm glad this is finally happening. Time switching is a plague on society.

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@ehsankia 3 months

Here's hoping Canada follows. I know many provinces were waiting for their southern states to make the switch to stay in sync (BC -> California, Quebec -> New York, etc). So hopefully Canada switches at same time as us!

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@charles_f 3 months

I wish they passed a bill to make the switch to standard time permanent. That extra hour of sleep once a year, that was gold.

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@neilv 3 months

> The Senate approved the measure, called the Sunshine Protection Act,

Not to be confused with "sunshine laws", and using that word for an unrelated legal measure could, uh, cloud things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_laws_by...

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@alerighi 3 months

I will never understand why we change the clock instead of changing our habits. Well, maybe in a time when we didn't have computers it was simpler to just put the clock ahead or behind an hour, but nowadays it creates a ton of complexity for nothing. Isn't it simpler to just shift our times, for example in the summer start to work at 9:00 and in the winter at 8:00?

Beside, if we have to choose a time, why not choose the solar time and shift all our times one hours, at least the sundial are right...

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@robbrown451 3 months

While we're at it, can we please get rid of leap seconds? (which we don't know are going to happen until ~six months beforehand?) Just wait until we are off by a full minute, and then we'd know at least a full decade ahead of time when the next leap minute will happen.

I don't understand the need to have it so precisely align with astronomical measurements (to the nearest 0.9 seconds) when we already do so much roundoff due to time zones, daylight time, etc.

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@User23 3 months


@mesozoic 3 months

Personally I'm tired of coding around time zones can we just make the whole world GMT time and learn to deal with not having "noons" and "midnights"

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@CyanLite4 3 months

Won’t take effect until 2023, but good to see it happen.

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@zcombynator 3 months

This decision boosted my confidence in the US Gov dramatically that they're actually trying to get more efficient.

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@bigbluedots 3 months

I love the title of the bill: "Sunshine Protection Act". This is great news. I am in Australia, and if this becomes law in the States it is more likely to be seriously considered here. We have a situation with half the country on DST and the other half on standard time. It hits a lot of us very hard at the end of April when DST ends.

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@1024core 3 months

What does this mean, in practical terms? Will DST become permanent?

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@radley 3 months

Obligatory link to previous attempt (1973) to make DST permanent:

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/01/31/archives/schools-ask-end-...

TLDR: schools asked to reinstate DST because more school children were killed in accidents walking to school in the dark that year.

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@germandiago 3 months

Nothing is permanent? What silly thing is this? It is like when Sweden did recently a nuclear waste area until the 30th century. What is the meaning of making it "permanent"?

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@globular-toast 3 months

I'm completely in favour of not regularly shifting the clock backwards and forwards, but making daylight savings time permanent instead of standard time is so dumb. I guarantee this is because people think they will "get more daylight" or something stupid like that. I guess this is the pragmatic solution to getting people to agree to stop the shifting but damn, we are so far from Star Trek right now.

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@razzimatazz 3 months

I like that this is such a wholesome topic we can safely debate on the internet. There are clearly good arguments for and against the change to permanent DST, so I will safely ignore anyone presenting statements of the "You must be an idiot if you think..." form.

There's no disinformation campaigns to worry about, nobody getting 'cancelled' for their poor arguments on the topic, no fraudulent studies being passed around. At least, for the time being...

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@rapht 3 months

So did America actually just change timezones?...

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@jrootabega 3 months

I would prefer we have permanent Standard Time so I can wait a year and then my car's clock will be correct forever.

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@twayt 3 months

What changed that has allowed this to happen now instead of decades ago?

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@somenewaccount1 3 months

does this make the clock flip-flopping permanent, or that we will stop doing it?

personally, i just want to punch the moving clock in the face. it nearly killed me last year when I was just starting to get an exercise routine at the end of winter, and then it sent me back into the dark by an hour, completely fucking up my schedule. i absolutely blame many of my problems on these flip flopping clocks, and I do not think i am alone.

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@bilalq 3 months

We thought Y2K38 would be the next big industry challenge, but I expect a lot of things are going to go wrong with a change with just a year or two of notice.

I love that this is happening, but I'm pretty certain a lot of random things are going to break when the cutover happens.

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@rdiddly 3 months

Sorry, permanently from here on in, we will spring forward and fall back, in accordance with the "Daylight Saving Time" custom, or permanently year-round we'll be sprung forward and using the "Daylight Saving Time" clock setting?

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@capital_guy 3 months

I am extremely surprised at all the people who are against this, saying that "Making DST permanent forces people to wake up earlier." I am not sure I know a single person whose morning wake-up time is dictated by the rise of the sun. Everyone I know wakes up whatever time that their work tells them to.

I am happy to have more sun after I get out of work. It was a breath of fresh air this week getting out of work and seeing daylight.

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@throwaway27727 3 months

This extra daylight in the evening is killing my babies sleep schedule - but I'm sure to enjoy it once they're older and they don't need such early naps.

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@bluenose69 3 months

The comments on this item are the funniest I've seen in a long time. Who knew Usians were so witty?

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@seangrogg 3 months

I'm all for either implementation of this (standard or savings); I have no particular skin in the game when it comes down to where daylight hours are positioned. Having lived about a decade in Arizona it literally never negatively impacted my life once.

Since moving I've come to participate in what seems to be the standard dread of moving hours back and forth. I either lose sleep and need to adjust my Circadian rhythm or I gain a one-off hour to... I dunno, lay in bed longer because I've already gotten my sleep?

The worst is being a gaming raid leader (and I'd imagine anyone dealing with globalized scheduling), though, because every time we do this I have to reach out to my gamers in other states/countries who don't play collective clock madness and ask them to adjust to those of us that still do for what appear to be largely outmoded "reasons".

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@Overtonwindow 3 months

Will this mean sending out an update to every single phone and gadget that changes automatically? On the iPhone you can just turn it off, so I would imagine not seeing it in future updates?

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@zupreme 3 months

All I can say is that it must take alot of confidence, for lack of a better term, to look at what time the sun goes down and to decide that you are going to change that.

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@chrysoprace 3 months

Speaking as a non-US person, I think this is great so long as it's across every state (can't tell from the Tweet). Here in Aus, whether to have daylight savings is determined by state/territory, which means that for half the year the entire East Coast (except for the biggest state by land area) is an hour ahead.

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@mgkimsal 3 months

I've suggested for years that we just split the difference, 'fall back' 30 minutes or what not, and call that done. Not sure why it doesn't get traction.

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@dwighttk 3 months

Let’s get back to local noon!

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@ZYinMD 3 months

Something you don't realize but matters to certain people: this will lock the time difference between east coast US & east coast China to 12 hours, which is very convenient, a quality of life change for a variety of things.

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@tptacek 3 months

Obligatory: https://archive.ph/Aro0a

Barro is very fond of pointing out that we tried this once in the 1970s and almost immediately rolled it back. Permanent DST means that it's dark between 8-9AM in large swathes of the US. Among other problems, having kids go to school in the dark or twilight hours is unsafe, so schools responded by adjusting their schedules, which is an even bigger problem than DST, because the rest of the economy has a de facto requirement to coordinate with school schedules.

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@3836293648 3 months

Surely the idiots wouldn't use summer time permanently. Winter time is needed. Summers are bright day all day long, it's summer time that needs to be gotten rid of

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@narrator 3 months

1084 comments? This is the ultimate bikeshedding issue.

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@blhack 3 months

As an Arizonan: welcome!

(Arizona does not celebrate daylight saving time)

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@nvarsj 3 months

Oh this is awesome! I hope the rest of the world follows suit. My kids are basically sleep deprived for a week solid every year the clocks change.

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@songzme 3 months

Does this mean that it is final and that come winter I don't have to reset my clocks anymore?

A bit sad because I have always correlated 12pm as the sun being at its highest point (except daylight savings time, but I mentally adjust for that). Now the sun will always be at the highest point at 1pm.

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@arjvik 3 months

So are we permanently going to be on "{Eastern,Central,Mountain,Pacific} Daylight Time"? Or are we redefining the time zones "{Eastern,Central,Mountain,Pacific} Standard Time"?

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@rkagerer 3 months

If this doesn't work out there's always Daylight Smearing Time.

https://xkcd.com/2266/

https://gregcochard.com/daylight-savings-time-smearing/

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@Ericson2314 3 months

Hot take: permenant daylight time not permanent standard time because nightowls are more common than they used to be.

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@zuminator 3 months

As a late riser I am thrilled by this development.

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@depingus 3 months

I see a lot of people arguing for and against DST. But, I can't imagine this is being done for anyone's comfort. DST is associated with higher consumer spending.

https://www.jpmorganchase.com/institute/research/cities-loca...

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@sjg007 3 months

At least they finally passed something..

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@tempodox 3 months

Am I the only one who finds the naming of this bill Orwellian?

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@noveltyaccount 3 months

I don't care if we pick permanent DST or Standard time, or abolish time zones altogether and just use UTC. It's the change that I dislike!

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@codazoda 3 months

How out of date is Congress.gov, which still shows this bill as having last action in March of 2021 and the status is "referred to committee" which is where all the legislation I care about seems to go to die.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623

Why is Twitter a better place to get this news than a .gov website that seems like it was built for it?

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@collegeburner 3 months

Fuck this. Keeping the DST change is still better than keeping DST permanently. We should stay on standard time all year, I'm sick of having 0 daylight in the morning when I get up.

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@dade_ 3 months

Wonderful news! I grew up without time changes in permanent "summer time" and watching the glorious sunrise winter mornings. I already wake up in the dark in the morning in the winter, so a few more precious moments of daylight in the afternoon will be great.

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@mrfusion 3 months

Does the house need to pass it? Will the president veto it? When can I literally set my clock to this?

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@mjw1007 3 months

It would be nice if the title mentioned which country's senate it's talking about (particularly as the title is made up for HN rather than taken from the source page).

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@aqme28 3 months

Fascinating to me that the one thing the Senate unanimously agrees on, HackerNews finds it incredibly controversial and discusses it for 2000+ comments.

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@nfw2 3 months

My personal pet peeve is when people write the Standard Time acronym when scheduling cross-timezone meetings, despite the fact that it is Daylight Saving Time. (Eg. "I'll call you tomorrow at 4pm PST.")

In the past, I've gotten paranoid that they may live somewhere that doesn't observe Daylight Savings, but I also don't want to seem like a pedant by bringing up their mistake.

I'm curious if this change will make this sort of thing more or less common.

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@mbg721 3 months

Move it all twelve hours back forever, then we'll have eternal daylight!

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@jimbokun 3 months

Does this still need to pass the House?

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@nimbius 3 months

S.623 spent nearly a year languishing it seems...better late than never i guess

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/117/s623

curious if govtrack is following this development? id be stunned if it makes it out of the house alive, as efforts to repeal DST frequently face stiff opposition from fast food and entertainment lobbies that insist its value.

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@russellbeattie 3 months

California passed a prop about this, but implementing it has been stalled for a couple years because why? You guessed it: Half the reps want to stick to PST and the other PDT.

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@cwt137 3 months

We need a lot of new embedded devices. Lots of them have hardcoded when the time changes and have no way of taking it off.

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@baron816 3 months

No government is telling me what time it is!

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@mbg721 3 months

Thus proving that they are robotic idiots designed specifically to annoy people. What exactly did that accomplish????

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@TheCoelacanth 3 months

Such a terrible idea compared to permanent standard time.

There is plenty of light during the summer, so there's no need to optimize for that. The winter is when daylight is scarce, so that's what should be optimized for.

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@seanmcdirmid 3 months

Woo hoo! This is going to be really great for Seattle, where the sun sets at 4PM in the winter.

Washington state has already voted on this change locally, and are only waiting for congressional approval at the federal level.

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@equivocates 3 months

Is daylight savings time such a hassle? All my clocks update themselves. I hardly ever notice the difference.

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@xattt 3 months

Looking forward to the boost of crop production with the extra hour of daylight!

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@BurningFrog 3 months

I didn't think we're heading for nuclear war, but the US Senate 100% agreeing to something is a clear sign The End Is Near!

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@bandyaboot 3 months

I think we should abandon any semblance of practicality and go for the elegance of some sort of continuously variable time system where it’s always noon exactly when the sun is at in zenith everyday and at every spot on Earth. It would be a great excuse for never being on time to anything.

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@cjohnson318 3 months

DST is inconvenient, but in the grand scheme of things like critical infrastructure spending, gerrymandering, voter suppression, congressional insider trading, congressional term limits, sensible gun control, regulating the insurance industry, among other things, voting on daylight savings time is an extreme example of bike-shedding.

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@wrs 3 months

To be precise, the bill [0] does not “make DST permanent”. It eliminates DST and redefines the standard time zone offsets. (Possibly an important distinction in software…)

[0] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623...

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@hbarka 3 months

When do we see this take permanent effect in California? It feels like this has been decided many months ago but why is the implementation in limbo?

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@lburton 3 months

http://andywoodruff.com/blog/where-to-hate-daylight-saving-t... has a nice interactive viz for # of days a place has a sunrise/sunset before/after a certain time with or without DST.

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@andredz 3 months

I'm surprised at how positive the response to this has been.

Whenever I've tried to reason through why we change our clocks twice a year I've found that it makes sense to do so (at least in my case).

Also, I've quite enjoyed experiencing the switches throughout my life. They've provided for a mildly entertaining small talk topic, an opportunity to fix my circadian cycles and some measure of excitement when getting to sleep for an extra hour.

That said, I recognize (now that I've seen this HN thread) that a LOT of people disliked the status quo of having to switch.

I just hope that my country won't follow the US in this, but I'm afraid we will.

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@bogota 3 months

Thank you. I feel terrible for a week every time they change the clock. I have a hard enough time getting on a good schedule without dealing with this stupid crap twice a year. This will greatly improve my life.

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@aj7 3 months

Now we get to remember the why of Daylight Saving Time.

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@zentiggr 3 months

Let's end the debate, assuage the farmers who opposed time changes from the beginning, and honor every other timekeeping system in our earlier history:

From now on, sunrise is 0700. The clock runs from 0700 sunrise to whatever time necessary overnight to arrive at sunrise again, at which point the time becomes 0700. For the part of the year where that duration is greater than 24 hours, the time past 06:59 simply counts up extra seconds until reset.

Now we can have computers and every other carefully regulated timekeeping system on milliseconds since an epoch timestamp, and regular old clock time fits everyone's schedules regardless of time of year, and never needs 'adjusting' again, since its sun-synchronized.

And people said Y2K and the Year 2038 issues were hard...

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@slavik81 3 months

This is nice to see. A provincial referendum to make DST permanent failed in Alberta last year (49.9% in favour to 50.1% against).

I have no strong opinions on whether we should make it permanent daylight saving time or standard time. To me, the important thing is just picking one and sticking with it.

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@awiesenhofer 3 months

The biggest surprise here for me was that this happened unanimously - does anyone know why or how? Maybe I should be glad that such clear-cut, science-based decisions are still possible, but it's become just so unusual lately...

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@IndySun 3 months

While it is (daylight saving) truly one of the most antiquated, and somewhat cuter, activities of humankind, why not just shift everybody (those countries that do this hour change thing) by 30 mins, split the difference, and leave it there?

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@mincer_ray 3 months

this is the first time ive felt something in weeks

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@ZYinMD 3 months

Sorry I'm too lazy to do mental gymnastics, could someone tell me, does this mean 8am will be darker or lighter than before?

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@jlokier 3 months

I'm surprised at the number of commenters who think permanent DST is favourable to night owls and bad for morning people.

I think it's night owls and delayed-cycle teenagers attending school who will suffer most under permanent DST.

In the Winter, permanent DST means everyone has to get up an hour earlier for work or school's clock time, relative to the sun which regulates their body rhythm.

Someone pointed out virtually nobody sets when they wake by the sun. Fair enough. But the sun does affect how well and how long they sleep, how restored they are, how they feel when they wake, and energy and concentration through the rest of the day.

Night people already struggle with getting up early enough for clock-time social expectations. As it's a struggle already, getting up an hour earlier is going to be harder for them. (If the sun makes no difference, why is it already hard?)

Research (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30691158) suggests that overall, health will suffer, sleep will be shorter, and educational attainment in teenage years will reduce. Even brain development may be adversely affected.

But there will be more shopping (economic activity), so that's ok.

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@stretchwithme 3 months

Finally. .001% of our national nightmare is over.

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@siruncledrew 3 months

I am so ready for permanent DST. More daylight to actually do stuff. Plus it's nice to not have to come out from work and it's all dark in the Fall/Winter.

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@dragonwriter 3 months

If we’re going to stop switching clocks, shouldn't it obviously be for permanent standard time, not DST?

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@Smithalicious 3 months

Watching Americans freak out about post-8AM sunrises is surreal to me. The sun doesn't rise until 8:45 during the darkest times of the year here in the Netherlands and its really not much of an issue.

Whether standard time or summer time is the better choice here is something I hold no opinion on, but the sheer hysteria some people here express is very overblown.

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@sporkland 3 months

Trying to analyze the impact of this I used my favorite tool for thinking through DST issues: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/@z-us-94114

Seems like with this law in effect, near the winter solstice in San Francisco what would have been 7:21am - 4:54pm will now instead be 8:21am - 5:54pm day light hours. Is this accurate?

On the one hand, the 6pm night time feels pretty reasonable, but 8:20 for sun in the morning seems pretty early. Although I think I prefer this to having standard time year around.

My favorite option on this topic is to change the clocks smaller amounts way more often to try and achieve good alignment between clocks and day light. I haven't worked it out with precision, but it seems like it should be better than than these hour jumps or not jumping at all.

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@riffic 3 months

if we're doing permanent daylight saving time, I propose just doing year-long standard time because it's effectively the same thing.

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@coding123 3 months

This is not law yet, does anyone know what hurdles remain?

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@robotcookies 3 months

Making DST permanent is essentially forcing everyone to wake up earlier in the day. All we're doing is calling 7 am, now 8 am to get people to psychologically accept this. This is a win for morning people who function better earlier... AND this is a loss for all the non-morning people who will now be forced to work, go to school, etc at a time when they don't operate optimally.

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@divbzero 3 months

This means permanently EDT/CDT/MDT/PDT? Or would EST/CST/MST/PST all be shifted by +01:00?

I am also curious if Canada or other countries would follow suit.

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@jackjeff 3 months

I really hope the UK does not imitate this. I moved from France to the UK over ten years ago. According to geography, France and the UK should be on the same time zone, but in practice France is using Germany’s time zone. In France thanks to the perfect combo of DST and the wrong time zone, you’re permanently shifted by either +1 or +2. The net effect is almost never see the sun in the morning when you wake up if you have to abide to standard office/school hours. When I moved to the UK I realised I was much less tired and happier to just wake up with the sun (at least for part of the year).

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@engineer_22 3 months

This is the kind of change I can live with!

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@toyg 3 months

I hope this means we'll do it in Europe too. It was supposed to happen last year but then everyone was busy with COVID and didn't have the time for it (pun intended). And now we're all busy with Ukraine... This obsolete switch has to end.

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@wolverine876 3 months

The whole world going to the same time zone, usually proposed in these discussions, doesn't work - sun-time dissociates with clock-time, making words like "night" and "noon" confusing.

However, I would like to see a North American Standard time (NAT): Set the clock at half-way between US Mountain and Central times and apply it to all of North America (with maybe a few extreme exceptions, such as western Alaska and Hawaii). The coasts would be off ~30 minutes more than DST, which I hope isn't too far, and nobody in North America would have to think about time zones again.

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@richardfey 3 months

EU to follow soon? It's been in the talks at least since 2018.

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@g_log 3 months

Sunlight is one of the most powerful zeitgebers and it makes sense to try and optimize the amount of sunlight exposure. However, is there a difference between morning light and evening light in terms of how they entrain the circadian rhythm?

If I work from 9am to 5pm in a dark office building, permanent standard time might allow me an hour of sunshine before work from 8am to 9am, and permanent DST might have me arriving in work while it's still dark but allow me an hour of sunshine from 5pm to 6pm. Which of those light exposure patterns would allow me to wake up easier at 7.30am?

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@kristopolous 3 months

And people say bipartisanship is dead...

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@xnx 3 months

Daylight Saving Time Gripe Assistant Tool "A handy tool to help make your case when whining about a biannual time change" https://observablehq.com/@awoodruff/daylight-saving-time-gri...

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@s1artibartfast 3 months

>Sunshine Protection Act

Jesus, does everything need to be hyperbolic virtue signaling. Won't someone please think of the children!

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@thehappypm 3 months

People literally die more because of these changes. Statistically measurable increase in mortality on these days. Save lives, stop changing the clocks.

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@stormbrew 3 months

I'd kill for a peek into the parallel universe where it was permanent standard time that was likely to get adopted and see how much effort went into researching the ill effects of that choice to convince people with enough FUD to keep daylight time switching going.

Here's the thing: If you're a proponent of permanent standard time, you should be in favour of turning off the switching no matter what. Even if it means daylight time. Because you know what? Your local time zone is changeable. You can lobby to change it. If permanent DST really results in the entire country turning into sleep deprived zombies having spontaneous heart attacks as they arrive at work and crashing into children going to school, then there'll be pressure to change it -- but we will have at least already started the process of eliminating the worse thing: changing twice a year.

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@t43562 3 months

I don't really understand why everyone seems to think that it's necessary to go to work at the same "time" each day. Why not let "time" stay the same all year but go to work at a different time in winter?

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@Ansil849 3 months

Does anyone else find it incredibly fucked up that the government gets to dictate our concepts of time?

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@Freak_NL 3 months

Let's hope the EU manages to follow; it seems to be in the cards, but politically tricky. This is something that has gained a lot of traction the last decade though; lots of popular support too (parents of young children will rejoice).

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@tested23 3 months

Sleep is one of the most important bodily functions, disrupting it because of silly reasons such as not waking up in light is ridiculous

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@throwthere 3 months

Just when you thought your timezone display code was finally functioning. Now what do you call non-DST timezones? Just PST? Will we refer to our timezone as PST (DST) for the rest of our lives?

Let's drop this madness and go to one worldwide timezone.

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@MrZongle2 3 months

I can understand the concern of other posters about going to DST as opposed to standard time... but at this point, I just want the switching to end. It is such an unnecessary disruption and fixing it seems so trivial.

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@n_plus_1 3 months

https://www.c-span.org/video/?518686-2/senate-session-part-2... I love hearing who I assume to be the speaker of the Senate say "oh I love it" on a hot mic.

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@unixbane 3 months

yes, this is a very big problem for devs who practice tutorial oriented programming and store and transmit local times.

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@solidsnack9000 3 months

The rule should be that each state can decide which one it wants but can only pick one. Arizona's case for standard time ("spring forward" just puts more of the day in the hottest time) is pretty reasonable.

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@betwixthewires 3 months

Goodness. Just end daylight savings time, problem solved. Oh you don't like waking up at 6, you'd rather wake up at 7? Well I've got news for you, you're waking up at the same time either way it's just that the clock shows an hour later. What time it is is when the sun comes up and goes down, not what number it is on the clock, the clock is supposed to be indicative of where the sun is in the sky, not the other way around.

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@ColinEberhardt 3 months

For those of you who are interested in the changing shape of the various timezones, moving to standardised offset, the rise and fall of daylight savings, I wrote a blog on the subject a little while back, "Exploring 120 years of timezones"

https://blog.scottlogic.com/2021/09/14/120-years-timezone.ht...

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@VoodooJuJu 3 months

Wrong move (again). The correct move would have been to make standard time permanent.

We tried permanent DST in the 70's and it was all well and good until people realized it meant complete darkness at 9am in winter.

I guess an extra 45 minutes of walking their dog in the park after work wasn't worth trudging through the cold black before their morning coffee kicked in.

Let's see if people will feel differently this time around (they won't).

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@captainmuon 3 months

This is ridiculous. Why don't they make the regular time permanent? And if people want to have more light in the evening, then they just leave work earlier. Surely that is easier than permanent daylight savings time.

I know people will say it's too hard to change habits and (clock) work hours, but with permanent DST you will have to change that anyway, when people realize how dark winter mornings will be. I predict a lot of people will want to move school start to a later hour then.

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@joezydeco 3 months

We did this before. 46 years ago. And it went badly.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-sav...

Why do we have such short memories?

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@tomohawk 3 months

Surprised they didn't compromise and go to 4, half hour adjustments per year.

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@n_plus_1 3 months

https://www.c-span.org/video/?518686-2/senate-session-part-2... I love hearing from who I assume to be the Speaker of the Senate (am from Westminster system country) say "oh I love it".

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@throwaway984393 3 months

Am I the only person who's only mildly bothered by daylight savings? Like, it's very slightly annoying every once in a while. But I adapt and move on.

You'd think the Senate could vote for something else that's trivial, like giving every child that needs one a lunch. It's not like millions of kids in the US go hungry every summer when they lose a free school lunch. Oh no, wait, they do actually. https://www.businessinsider.com/free-school-lunch-kids-summe...

Richest nation in the world. 22 million children depend on state assistance to eat, because their family doesn't make enough to buy enough food. Something seems wrong with this picture.

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@stevenyoung 3 months

This is the right thing done the wrong way. Make Standard Time permanent. Let's Make Noon Noon Again!!!

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@oppositelock 3 months

Bah! Those of us who are morning people would prefer to ban daylight savings time and stay on standard time.

Pretty soon, we'll have the war of the big-endians and little-endians like in Gulliver's Travels.

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@bombcar 3 months

If dawn is more important than noon, we could redraw the timezones so they slant as they go north, keeping dawn at roughly the same time.

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@froderick 3 months

I’m amazed a group of politicians that can’t agree on basic stuff managed to agree on this. This thread is evidence of the issues at play, the strongly held opinions.

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@LeoPanthera 3 months

This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There's a reason why "Standard Time" is called that. Now the words "Midday" and "Midnight" are meaningless.

The measurement of time is a science, and science should not be decided by politicians.

This seems trivial, but if this, then what next?

Edit: I'm getting a lot of replies saying that "midday" isn't precisely the middle of the day, and therefore I am wrong, but even since the invention of timezones, midday is supposed to be "the middle of the day, to the nearest hour". Now it is intentionally skewed, and keeping this forever seems like a huge mistake.

If you are willing to accept that the numbers on the clock don't actually mean anything, we should all just use UTC all the time, with all the pain that that will bring. This is just the first step along the way.

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@upofadown 3 months

Everyone will not be happy no matter what happens here. A compromise might be to switch to regular time all the time and then encourage businesses to allow employees to optionally come in an hour earlier. A really mild form of flex time...

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@chapium 3 months

I know this is hardly a radical take, but I don't care what time it is. I can adjust my schedule appropriately. What I hate is changing the time. It makes us all sicker, causes accidents, and workers in certain professions have to work weird hours to keep up with the changes. It's such a drag on the economy and only seems to serve a small fragment of society.

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@Andrew_nenakhov 3 months

Yes. Permanent. Until the next time change.

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@sbahr001 3 months

Am I not mistaken, but isn't this change going to make datetime calculation hell now; especially with legacy systems or am I missing something.

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@GekkePrutser 3 months

Great idea, hope we will follow suit in Europe.

I hope we will go for the "Summer" time too because it will give more light at night. It's ridiculous to have it dark so early.

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@lamontcg 3 months

Get in!

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@phendrenad2 3 months

Next step: get rid of timezones. But society isn't ready for that one.

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@cbhl 3 months

Friendly pointer to this piece from a few months ago about the folks behind the time zone database (also known as tz or zoneinfo):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28904252

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@hinkley 3 months

I think I can say this on behalf of most developers who have ever had to fix DST errors in their code: Thank fucking god.

I am shocked that none of our unit tests failed on Monday. One of the first code reviews I did here I pointed out that his tests were going to break in a few months when DST kicked in because his tests asserted that there was a 24 hour gap between two calculations. He responded this code was temporary and it would be gone by then.

There was another PR on a certain Monday a few months later. Told ya so.

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@dathinab 3 months

Sometimes the ignorance of lawmakers is just baffling.

I mean there is pretty much a scientific consensus as far as I know that switching to permanent DST is a quite unhealthy choice for the larger part of the population, which happen to already be negative affected by other effects also balanced against them.

Just to be clear I don't know if it's worse then DST switching.

But it's worse then permanent "normal" (i.e. winter) time.

I mean there is a reason this was the normal time, before DST was introduced.

I also want to note here that for some areas in some time zones the negative effects of permanent DST might be less then for other areas (potentially) in other time zone, idk. how this applies to the US.

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@qwery 3 months

appendages not worth saving without daylight savings only saving time

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@shmerl 3 months

Good, now also complete the metrication as a next step instead of dragging it forever in some half baked limbo.

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@dirtyid 3 months

Well I guess the dream is dead in Canada now.

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@Someone 3 months

I didn’t know this is for the senate to decide, and find that surprising, given that most of Arizona doesn’t do DST at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona:

“Arizona does not observe daylight saving time (DST), with the exception of the Navajo Nation, which does observe DST. The Hopi Reservation, which is not part of the Navajo Nation but is geographically surrounded by it, also does not observe DST.[2] For this reason, driving the length of Arizona State Route 264 east from Tuba City while DST is in place involves six time zone changes in less than 100 miles (160 km).”

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@giantg2 3 months

Background information for all the people talking about what is early and what isn't. (Not that this settles the definition but does show when people need to be starting the work day, and thus the number affected)

https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/overflow-data-finds-th...

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@D13Fd 3 months

I really don't like that they picked permanent DST.

Does no one realize that this means that we all have to get up one hour earlier year round? That kids will have to travel to school in the dark for the majority of the year, including in most cases standing around in the freezing cold at unlit bus stops?

It's still better than resetting the clocks. But I really they should have chosen standard time.

Also, this means nothing unless passed by congress as well.

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@yoyopa 3 months

this is so dumb. other things to worry about

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@ultra_nick 3 months

That's terrible news. It'll be extremely hard to wake up and do anything before day jobs now.

We should move the standard work day to 10-6 to compensate.

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@wolverine876 3 months

It feels like we live in such a post-truth world, even the clock will now be an untruth. Couldn't we just use standard time, and let people wake and sleep when they choose, instead of creating an illusion for them?

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@panick21_ 3 months

This 10 year old classic video is still relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84aWtseb2-4

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@thebiss 3 months

The sunrise & sunset calculator at https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/ will plot how this affects your location.

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@mdturnerphys 3 months

More info here: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-tha...

Important note: "Senator Marco Rubio said after input from airlines and broadcasters that supporters agreed that the change would not take place until November 2023."

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@Brian_K_White 3 months

This is a great idea! Instead of just working from 8 to 4 to leave an hour of daylight after work, let's instead tilt all the clocks so that noon is at 11am.

Why stop with the clocks?

Today I announce my genius proposal Wallet Saving Prices.

Everyone wants more money left over after they buy something, so the obvious way to achieve that is just slide all the numbering systems left by one.

Henceforth all prices shall be written on a scale that starts at -1 instead of 0. If a thing cost $4 yesterday, it now costs the same 4 dollars, but the price is written as $3. This will give everyone more money!

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@greyhair 3 months

I hate daylight savings time.

I get up everyday at 6:00 AM, with a large segment of the population whose workday starts at 7:00 AM every day. They have no choice. And just as it was getting to be light a little at 6:00 AM, we just 'leaped ahead' back into darkness.

I would prefer that we just run on standard time all the time. You want more light in your evening? Get up earlier. Go to work earlier, so you get home earlier.

Daylight Savings Time sucks.

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@linsomniac 3 months

Next up: The metric system? One can dream...

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@apetresc 3 months

Before I get excited about this, is this actually binding in any real way? Or is it one of those governmental things where this vote just allows another vote that allows another session to decide whether or not to have another vote, etc. forever?

And also, if it does happen, how much more likely does it make it that Canada will follow suit? Surely having Canada out of sync with the USA for half the year is untenable, right?

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@mdaniel 3 months

Apparently the dupe detector is case sensitive: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30689221 currently has 388 comments to this thread's 92

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@11thEarlOfMar 3 months

You mean..... I'm never going to get this hour back??

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@sam0x17 3 months

This is the most impactful, positive piece of legislation that affects my life that has been enacted since marriage equality in 2015. How sad is that?

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@lsh123 3 months

Now, let’s just all switch to UTC time and my life will be much easier.

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@graphenus 3 months

Oh wow, the USA is now repeating Russia's mistake. :)

Russia abolished time shifting more than a decade ago and adopted DST. But then they realized that mornings in winter time were very depressive (too dark) and hence in 2014 switched back standard time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Russia

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@dddddaviddddd 3 months

Currently working its way through the legislative process, first introduced in 2018: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Protection_Act

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@danrl 3 months

Finally! Couldn’t be happier. Still can’t believe this really happened.

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@LeifCarrotson 3 months

So how long do I have to wait until this goes to the House?

And why will it fail when it gets there, or be stuck in committee forever before reaching the floor, or have some nonsensical pork attached to it? I have no faith in my government to do something as nice as give me a little sunshine in the evening...

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@coryfklein 3 months

Personally, this makes me so happy. I have wanted this for so long now.

Professionally I'm already groaning inside; it looks like 2023 will be the year of "DST-related bugs being exposed in our product".

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@anu7df 3 months

Apparently as per the house majority leader's office they have no plans to vote on this now[1]. May be he was just making a factual statement on what they have on schedule. Cynic in me thinks it is just the usual dysfunction since the republicans were in favor of this in the Senate so the House doesn't want to do anything about it. Really how long does it take to vote on an almost non-event non divisive bill. [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/03/15/1086773840/daylight-saving-ti...

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@greyhair 3 months

Why don't we leave the clocks aligned with the Sun, so noon occurs at solar noon, and just have everybody agree to shift their work day to 7:00 to 4:00.

Because on a solar basis, that is exactly what you are doing. "8 to 5" will now be "7 to 4". And people that normally work "7 to 4" will now be working "6 to 3"

That is all you are doing. You are basically just kidding yourselves. It is so extremely stupid, really. You want more sun in your evening? Get up and get to work earlier. It isn't rocket science.

I'll be waiting two years out for everyone pushing the school day to start at 10:AM, and for a lot of businesses to start at 9:AM instead of 8.

You could solve all these problems by just getting the Networks to stream their programming one hour earlier at night. And leave the clocks on standard time year round.

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@patwolf 3 months

Back in '08 when the US dates of DST changed, I was working on a Java-based enterprise software product with a relatively large install base. It suddenly became known to a lot of customers that timezone tables are part of the JRE, and simply updating the OS wasn't enough to get proper time calculations in Java. It was a very stressful time getting customers with many different versions of Java across dozens of platforms properly updated. A lot of customers were running ancient versions of Java that were well past EOL, but we still helped them out.

Needless to say, I'm very happy this might finally happen. I do not, however, envy whoever is now supporting that software. I'm sure there are folks that haven't touched their systems since the last DST change.

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@daenz 3 months

What will the impact be for software engineering?

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@armandososa 3 months

This is so going to screw with my remote working situation. I'll have to do everything one hour early for half the year.

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@ilovesunlight 3 months

The problem with daylight savings is that people generally go to bed later, because the sun influences what time we feel tired. For adults with a flexible schedule this may be OK, but for children it is a disaster, as their school start time does not change.

India is basically doing this experiment in real time with their one-time zone policy. Children on the west do worse from an educational standpoint because the sun sets later, yet school starts at the same time.

This was widely covered in the news a few years back.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47168359

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@technothrasher 3 months

Does this mean that I will no longer be able to smugly remind people that there is only one 's' in "daylight saving time"? It was really the only reason I could see for keeping the biannual time change around.

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@ilovesunlight 3 months

Why now? Consumer spending goes up with DST, so is this a desperate attempt to save the economy?

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@ezconnect 3 months

DST solve nothing, I still don't understand why it was invented.

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@jcadam 3 months

Don't tease me, is this real?

I honestly don't care whether they go with ST or DST permanently, just pick one and stop screwing with my circadian rhythm twice a year.

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@goldtownjac 3 months

It seems like everyone I know has a strong reaction to this news. It’s clear that sunlight is both precious and scarce for the modern office worker. Why do most employers still require butts in seats for almost 100% of the sunlit day in winter?

It makes me really sad to see people fight over a ubiquitous resource like sunlight. It’s neither natural nor healthy to spend all day every day inside, let alone against your will.

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@Lamad123 3 months

Morocco did this very thing a couple years back! I remember reading it on HN.

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@XorNot 3 months

And now a new generation of programmers are going to discover some more things they didn't know about time...

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@Thristle 3 months

Oh dear, poor datetime/timezone library maintainers

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@joyhumin 3 months

I wish there will be a same bill for NZ. DST really sucks :(

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@friendzis 3 months

This will probably get lost, but anyway.

Socially we need a way to synchronize with each other and we designed our culture around calendars and clocks, synchronized to Earth revolutions - midnight.

Our bodies are designed (evolved if you want) to synchronize with the sun and there the best (healthiest) waking time is at sunrise. When synchronized to midnight, sunrise time varies and that variation depends on latitude.

It is simply preferable to have waking time synchronized with the sunrise. DST is one way to do that and actually quite good: it keeps clocks universally synchronized around the world allows scheduling not to consider sunrise time variations.

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@thehappypm 3 months

One thing I like to point out is that DST is longer than Standard Time. DST is March to November (~8 months), Standard Time is about 4 months.

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@andrewstuart 3 months

I wonder why the USA is so supportive of this, but so against metric?

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@kccqzy 3 months

So far it's not showing up on the official website of Congress: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623...

I'd also love to read the relevant Congressional Record to see how senators debated this bill.

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@seltzered_ 3 months

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/623 .

The tweet doesn't provide much context if it just passed the senate, republican senate cloakroom, house, or is fully passed up through the President.

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@Veuxdo 3 months

RIP companies that stored future events as timestamps.

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@salawat 3 months

So who is going to update all the non networked electronic clocks that automatically adjust for standard/DST changes?

This is the problem with Congress... No connection feedbackwise to the ungodly hell made by the legislation they pass. It's always someone else's problem.

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@51Cards 3 months

And then some cities in Canada are going to have the sun rise at 10am in the winter. There is no win on this one, shift it one way, Group A gets screwed, shift it the other way and Group B gets screwed, flip it back and forth and everyone complains.

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@pleb_nz 3 months

I propose

Seconds should be made to have a different duration depending on the time of day and year the second is ticked. This would happen in a way to facilitate a sunrise and sunset to occur at the same time every day of the year.

I name this plebian time.

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@taubek 3 months

If the Sun is at the highest point in the sky at the noon, and the shadows point to the north wouldn't it be logical to abandon daylight savings?

If the problem is that kids go to school too early or that workers go to work while it is dark, wouldn't it be possible to start school and work one hour later?

What effect will this have on international trades (stock markets) and synchronization with transoceanic flights?

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@nunez 3 months

Absolutely fantastic news. I love later, brighter afternoons. This will also make lives for people in the North a little more tolerable; sunset at 4pm was a killer when I was there.

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@sjmm1989 3 months

Some of the people are talking about how it affects the kids going to school.

Honestly, having grown up part of my childhood in Saskatchewan... daylights savings time was never a thing I had to deal with really. We had our own time zone.

But the few years I was in Alberta during my school years, those days after the hour removal were just dreadful. Having to get up at what was yesterdays 5:30am to take a school bus at what was yesterdays 7:00am in the morning to be able to get there for todays 9:00am... up to 30 minutes early... was pure and unadulterated BULLSHIT.

Half the morning classes I was too tired to ever learn a damn thing properly, even with a good amount of sleep.

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@grammers 3 months

Good, it was about time. All research suggest that the switching back and forth is harmful so why keep it?

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@pc2g4d 3 months

I just saw a poll yesterday showing greater support for permanent standard time.

After all, it is "standard".

The farther we get from "noon" being the sun directly overhead, the worse for health, in my view.

But probably this is better than switching twice a year.

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@u2077 3 months

Now let’s all move to the metric system.

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@devinnsomnath 3 months

Hotel Dev Inn, a luxury hotel in Somnath with sea view is well known as a great destination for the tourists as well as devotees visiting Somnath and seeking for a comfortable accommodation with a sense of luxuriousness!!

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@hindsightbias 3 months

I'm 100% for this as long as the FAANGs enforce work schedules tied to public education schedules.

You will all know what it's like to have a morning newspaper route.

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@RKearney 3 months

I've never come across a device that supports permanent summer time. You can typically opt out of daylight saving time and stay in standard time, but you can't stay in summer time.

These devices will either need to pick the standard timezone of the timezone to the east and disable daylight saving time, or we will have to change the offset of every timezone in the US, or devices will need to add an explicit summer timezone.

I don't see how any of this is easier than staying on standard time and disabling daylight saving time, which every device that tells time that I've come across seems to support.

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@kmote00 3 months

Our grandchildren will never know what "High Noon" meant.

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@morpheos137 3 months

Has anybody studied the number of premature deaths attributable to daylight savings time?

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@jeffalbertson 3 months

Being from CA, Daylight savings is the closest thing I have to seasons. I find the clock changing to be festive and fun :(

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@ck2 3 months

btw the visualization of hours of daylight and the DST shift on this website is really great IMHO

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/new-york

So basically if the house also votes for this the ends are moved up.

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@andy_ppp 3 months

Will this actually become law then, I’m keen for this to happen everywhere, the downsides of changing clocks is enormous - even just the increase in heart attacks from losing an hour of sleep is non trivial from what I read.

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@xivzgrev 3 months

this is the best news i've read on hacker news for some time.

it's time to standardize our time.

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@jsdevtom 3 months

All these arguments about school times etc. My code would be eternally ridiculed if I mocked the Date object to artificially change the time, instead changing the time school started for certain months.

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@shadowofneptune 3 months

This is excellent. With the rise of air conditioning, daylight savings has considerably less electricity savings than it used to. It will also make timekeeping more consistent. I have lived in Arizona for the past few years and it is pleasant to know that you will always be at UTC-7:00.

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@jp57 3 months

I mentioned something similar in a comment last year, but I think there's going to be a lot of moaning about late sunrises in US in December. Roughly 8:15-8:20 am around the solstice in New York, DC, Chicago, and even Austin. Not til nearly 9am in Seattle. The sun won't rise before 8am in NYC for basically all of December and January.

I'd even be willing to guess that the amount of moaning might be equal to what we get now around the clock change.

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@jgwil2 3 months

Since apparently no one likes changing the time but no one can agree whether we should go with standard or daylight time, why don't we just split it right down the middle and have an extra 30 minutes added to our UTC offset like in India?

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@sllabres 3 months

The country of Elbonia passes the bill for the "moon bashing act" and permanently forward the clock by _12_ hours (and not just a laughable one hour), after Elbonien scientists discovered that the cost savings for street lighting alone is equivalent to half of their gross domestic product.

... and i will adjust my clock dynamically, so i'm never too late again.

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@ddlatham 3 months

We did this before, about 50 years ago. Going in, close to 80% of people supported permanent Daylight Saving Time. After experiencing a single winter, that dropped to close to 40%, and it was repealed. Looks like we may be doomed to repeat the experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...

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@anchochilis 3 months

Studies have shown that later sunsets lead to worse health and economic outcomes. People who live on the western edge of a timezone earn 3% less and have higher rates of lifestyle diseases than those on the eastern edge, because they go to bed later but wake at the same socially-prescribed time, and therefore get less sleep. [1]

So why make DST instead of eliminating it entirely? It seems earlier sunset would be much more beneficial for society.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/04/19/how-livin...

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@runjake 3 months

What does this mean in terms of short-term, real-world effect in the US?

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@maerF0x0 3 months

Wait, it's not April 1. Suddenly I love this adminsitration [1]

> Sunshine Protection Act of 2021

Yes. Save the sun, save the lights, save everything.

[1]: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recency_bias

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@pabs3 3 months

Will some states get new timezones that meet their DST needs in response to this?

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@danso 3 months

Mods: Maybe the tweet link could be replaced with this Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senate-approves-bill-tha...

> WASHINGTON, March 15 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted unanimously on Tuesday to make Daylight Savings Time permanent, a move supporters say would make winter afternoons brighter and end the twice changing of clocks.

> The measure still needs approval from the U.S. House of Representatives and the backing of President Joe Biden. On Sunday, most of the United States resumed Daylight Savings Time, moving ahead one hour. The United States will resume standard time in November 2022.

> Senator Marco Rubio said after input from airlines and broadcasters that supporters agreed that the change would not take place until November 2023.

(I searched around after seeing the @senatecloakroom tweet, but apparently the news was new enough that no articles had yet been written)

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@bob1029 3 months

What do we think about the impact on our software? I have no clue about how my OS deals with TZ info changes over time or how older systems would behave absent a centralized management system.

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@rejor121 3 months

I live in Taiwan, and there’s no time switching at all. So happy about it.

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