Hacker News Re-Imagined

Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

  • 1069 points
  • 14 days ago

  • @carlycue
  • Created a post

Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work


@ensan 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Wow, reading a few pages of mostly spiteful & angry (at Mr. Goodfellow) replies on macrumors.com was really eye-opening. Ordinary people seem to have no idea at all how much in-demand someone at the level of Ian Goodfellow is.

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@hintymad 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

A theory is that VP+s love their teams to be in office. Their values are in talking to people all day long, and in-person meetings amplify the perceived values. Therefore, they do mandate returning-to-office policy. This also explains why companies argue how important in-person meetings are for productivity yet engineers are saying the opposite.

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@NKosmatos 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good for him and good for all the others that are able to do this (resign and find a new full remote job). For the rest of us it’s going to be a struggle to persuade our companies that WFH is well suited for a percentage of the workforce and they should offer it if they want to keep good/skilled workers. WFH is not for everybody and there are many people that want to return to offices, but the companies that realize that can offer both will come out of this better staffed ;-)

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@paul7986 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I'm so happy to work for a company who tried to do hybrid and when no one showed up (no way i was going back its a 50 mile one way drive) beginning of April they just said we are now a remote company.

Apple, Google, etc are going to learn quickly and change to all remote soon too I bet. Weighing their prestige vs. the improved quality of life remote brings to most workers can not compete. Especially with company's like Air BnB which pays same very high salaries who says work anywhere in the world.

Overall a raise of 50 to 100k in salary would not get me back into any office and I live alone in a small town in south central PA. The pandemic forced me to find a new social life with new friends that Im equally enjoying as I did with friends I had at work (they are still around some socially but the connection isnt as strong).

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@civilized 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Doesn't he know that serendipitous water cooler encounters and impromptu lunchroom brainstorming sessions are the only way to innovate?

We should pretty much just replace the workplace with a water cooler called Serendipity and a lunchroom called Impromptu.

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@saddist0 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I don't get the fuss about such posts. At the end of the day, it boils down to your personal choices. You love to remote work, find a job with a flexible work policy. You don't, well, here are another companies you would love to work for.

Ultimately, markets (including job market) is all about equilibrium. Either companies are going to increase the salary to come back [or reduce if you are staying back at home].

The thing which matters the most is picking up the best option for yourself. [and don't _always_ wait for your company to catch up]

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@jbverschoor 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Well they just got robbed of >500GB of chips designs..

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@da39a3ee 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I understand that some managers and PMs whose jobs meeting people the whole time might think that office work is superior. But I've honestly been surprised that they lack the intelligence to see that many good software engineers work better alone in quiet environments.

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@lajamerr 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I assume Ian wants to get back into research/publishing papers as well, he hasn't published any good papers in a while. He probably wanted the industry experience/research of machine learning in commercial applications with the scale and support of Apple behind it. When Apple designs things they design it with a fixed narrow purpose. Where as with Google you build general solutions. I think he wanted the experience of both. This return to office probably just gives him a good out after he accomplished what he wanted to do at Apple.

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@hitovst 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

It's amazing how bigoted some of the employees are. Having never witnessed the type of racism until recently when it has become en vogue, it's disgusting, and incredible how people admit their bigotry, and how others tolerate it.

It is interesting that the employees seem to realize that before technology allowed for people to work remotely, it was more an issue of individual merit that determined who had which jobs. They'd probably not admit it, but that is consistent with their claims given the circumstances.

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@bluepoint 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

maybe he did figure out how to fully automate his job.

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@bradhe 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

This actually seems a bit crazy to me. You're one of the most important figures leading the charge on cutting edge technology at _the_ industry leader...and you resign because they ask you to come to the office.

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@tayistay 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

When the pandemic started and everyone was on lockdown, there were very few cars on the roads around SF. I remember being able to see into the distance so clearly, it was surprising. I read that 2/3 of the SF Bay Area could work remotely. In the age of climate change (not to mention air pollution) we probably should insist on, or even mandate, remote work whenever possible. Supposed productivity benefits from in person work are not as important.

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@shmerl 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good for him. Apple's push for "return to office" is stupid.

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@thr0wawayf00 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good for him.

These companies touting their solutions for creating a more connected world can't have it both ways. Apple was able to ship the M1 and roll out new iterations of many other offerings since the pandemic hit. They're just fine.

Apple didn't collapse since the pandemic hit, and the flexibility offered by remote work is far more valuable to lots of people than the loss of in-person collaboration opportunities. We deserve to have input into how we work best and if that means walking away from companies run by egomaniacs that need to see butts in seats, then so be it.

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@skunkworker 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Quite a big loss for Apple. Ian was the primary author of the 2014 GAN paper.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1406.2661

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@ineedasername 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I'm trying to hire for a position right now and it has dragged on for months for two reasons:

1) WFH is now limited to 1 day per week, and a 3 month probationary period where new hires don't even get that.

2) Salary. It's still a job seeker's market and my workplace is not keeping pace. It's spec'ed for 3 years of experience but salary is about the median for a new graduate w/o professional experience. I'm happy to train someone but if I rework the job class to allow for new grads then HR will lower the starting salary. So, I'm hoping to find someone who's a new grad but had a part time job or internship or any other non-coursework experience the could be even the least bit argued as adding up to the required experience. (the position is basically a data wrangler / sql jockey / light analysis position, but it directly supports the main revenue-generating operations of the organization so there is real $$$ lost by having this position empty. ::Grrrrr:: end rant.)

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@slowbdotro 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙



@shadowgovt 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Ooh, free pickup for some enterprising company...

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@Andrew_nenakhov 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat.

I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more leverage receives an advantage (like a valuable hire can get a pay raise our rights to work remote in an office-first company, for example). Why make so much drama out of it? If you don't like to work in office, find a remote job, end of story.

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@seydor 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Right now people are living a honeymoon moment for remote work , because it's not just remote, it's asyncrhonous. But as management is coming to terms with the reality of permanent remote, they will start using virtual tools that allow them to have a synchronous overview of what is happening. Something like working in second life or whatever zuck's Sims will look like. That shift to synchronous is going to make remote slighty more unpleasant (but still preferable)

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@seanjacobs1981 13 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Sorry but human beings aren't meant to live or work in isolation and no, Zoom does not cut it. Someone resigning would not change my mind, I'd say "don't let the door hit you on the way out becauase we have about 10,000 other people in line for your job who would happily work at Apple Park."

Furthermore, it is NOT healhty to sit at home. It causes "cabin fever" and that's a well known and documented fact. It causes unhealthy habits. It IS healthy, however, to leave your home and get out into the world.

This whole issue tells me how incredibly ridiculous people have become not to realize the small businesses they are literally killing off with their "i've got to stay home" attidude. How selfish of people to not realize that businesses around workplaces depend on the commerce. So basically it's just OK to say, "hey who cares about you small business owner, I am too lazy to commute and I've made a millione excuses to need to stay home and supposedly work."

I can go into an office and get 50 times more productive things done interacting with real humans and working together. It's also fulfilling to socialize and if you are an introvert then it helps you that much more.

It's just plain sad to see so many people whining on and on when they are literally damaging themselves from isolation....and video is NOT a replacement and never will be.

Note also that the United States' productivity is going down....wonder why.

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@softwaredoug 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Whether you favor in office or remote, you have to admit our cost structures have fundamentally reoriented the last 2 years.

Think of the commuting costs, living near/far from the office, the different types of day care options, etc etc that have shifted in the last two years. Imagine being told you’re going to get a 10% cut in pay due to the need to go in the office? That’s what RTO probably feels like to peoples pocket books.

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@Gatsky 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Looking at how the economy is going, leaner times can be expected. Unrelated to the article, but are there any data points on whether remote workers are more likely to get cut in a restructuring when a company needs to reduce costs?

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@greggman3 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

random though. was walking around union square in SF today. It dead. Sooo many stores gone. Than walked down to the FiDi and it's dead too. With no one going to work the business that relied on the workers for business had to close up.

It made me curious how to redistrict things. If those buildings turned into apartments the business would have a much better time and that area could be even more walkable

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@LightG 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good for him.

The more that stand up for this, the more businesses will consider its importance.

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@trhway 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

>a little over four years

Full vest. Time to go.

I've had WFH people around for more than 20 years at all the places I worked over that time. Mostly they were doing their job, yet there were always limits felt to what they can do and how much they can do.

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@visarga 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙



@changoplatanero 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

As far as I know, apple hasn't ever announced what he was working on

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@AviationAtom 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I'm not sure remote work is for me, but if justice can be done to a position with little, or no, in-office time... then why force employees into the office?

Money can be saved on all the accomodations necessary for office workers, so it would seem like a win-win if remote work arrangements are viable for a position.

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@jasoneckert 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙



@tikiman163 13 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I want to be clear I'm playing devils advocate here. I'm a software engineering team lead who likes both in person and remote work. I'm comfortable with having fully remote team members, I've successfully been a team lead for groups where some members were Europe, other I the US and still other in India all at the same time. Overall things worked so long as I focused on being a team lead and not on being the most productive senior/principal engineer. We actually had this going on both during and before the pandemic even started. I don't generally seeing an overwhelmingly compelling reason not to allow that.

However, I still see problems that are difficult or even impossible to resolve. Even though I was able to maintain team velocity comparable to a fully in-person team there are significant downsides. First off, I have always overworked myself, but I don't think it's healthy and I discourage others from doing so. Leading a fully remote team required me to work more hours even when we were in the same time zone. Yes, you get back time from not having to commute, but on average my hours increased by more than my commute time when my teams were fully remote. I will summarize the root causes of this problem as I have been able to identify them.

First, remote meetings are dramatically less productive regardless of their length the second there are more than 3 people involved. Someone will attempt to multi-task if any topic they are not heavily involved in gets brought up. In short, getting organized and ensuring everyone involved has received and retained important information becomes far more difficult and time concuming. Anything I tell a group larger than 3 will ultimately result in my having to repeat that information for at least 1 person, and the larger the group the more times I end up repeating that information. This increases the time I spend organizing my team to keep them productive from maybe 1/6th of my time to easily half. Given that I also need to train lower level developers to become higher level developers, this tends to reduce the time I have to develop by 1/2 to 2/3rds.

Second, not having clear start and stop times makes it far more difficult for developers to manage their time effectively. I've seen senior devs that would normally have developed for 5 hours (plus meetings) and been done for the day jumpt to 10 hours and burn out. I've also seen a lot more junior devs try to work on a problem for 2-3 hours, feeling they can't interrupt seniors or mid level devs because of our online status, and then give up for the day. In either case, the odds that they quit and look for a different job shoots through the roof. This means developers that would otherwise have productive enjoyable careers are more frequently leaving the industry because they aren't in the upper 10% of people when it comes to self-management.

I'm not saying remote work is a bad thing, but it's really important we understand their are trade offs, and that these trade offs either reduce the number of people we can work with, or may require us to work more hours than are healthy.

To be completely clear, I don't advocate requiring people to come in, but when choosing an employer if everything else is equal I'm more likely to pick the company where everyone lives in the same city and we have the option to come into the office or not. I will especially choose them if I'm able to require that some people come in on certain days if I've identified them as someone that doesn't pay attention during meetings or has time management issues like overworking or giving up because they can't figure it out on their own.

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@_ph_ 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

There are both good arguments for in-office work as for work from home. The first might give you better access to interaction with colleagues, the second more flexibility, less communte and often better productivity due to less interaction with colleagues :).

No doubt there is a huge challenge for companies how to organize their work as they are reopening their offices. In general, I think they should allow for more time. No one likes to be forced back to the offices, but as more and more people return to the office, they might gain more attraction as a place to meet people again. The 3 day in-office work week might happen on its own quickly enough, forcing people might be quite counter-productive.

The big elephant in the room in the case of Apple surely is their shiny new headquarter. They spent like 5 billion on it, and from what I read it wasn't even popular before the pandemic. Because it was designed by upper management, but somehow the people who should work there were not asked. With that amount of budget, it should be possible to design offices that people desparately want to work in. Hint: open offices aren't this :p

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@mensetmanusman 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Does Siri use machine learning? It is so far behind Alexa…

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@uwuemu 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I don't really get the debate. Surely people recognize that Apple is one of the most left-wing friendly (worker rights etc., you know the deal) and accomodating places to work at, if you care about such things. Surely people recognize that Apple was generous with the whole work from home thing. So now some people don't want to go back to the office, which is understandable, but there's one little problem from Apple's point of view, well actually one massive problem if you're upper management at Apple: for all the talk about the positives of working of home, there is a bottom line and that is the fact that productivity is down.

You can argument all day and night about how great WFH is, but if the management is seeing a drop in productivity, they will want you back at the office. THAT is why Apple (and others) is doing that. If you have a measurable productivity levels in your company (i.e. you're not Twitter), you should expect to be returning back to the office sooner or later because even if YOU are more productive, on average the productivity suffers with entire teams working from home.

And it just makes sense. It really does. Even if you don't want it to.

You can try to work hard and be focused, but not everyone can do that. I don't see people here talking about this often, but office isn't just a place for the employer to take advantage of you... it's a place where you're away from HOME on PURPOSE. You're supposed to get into a different head space, temporarily forget about your home life and issues and focus on work. How can you do that at home unless you have anything but a completely 100% supportive partner, no kids, no pets, no obligations or chores and an iron will? Most people don't have that... and for these people, working at the office will be more productive.

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@antirez 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Worked remote 80% of my career. I understand the advantages, but here there is, I fear, an undervaluation of the advantages that seeing other coworkers at least a few days every week brings on the table. Especially if you are doing innovative, design work, to be on the same table from time to time, take the coffee break together, allows to "multiply" the ideas.

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@thr0wawayf00 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do...

...as long as it's done from the office.

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@malwarebytess 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Warning: Hot Take.

I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers.

For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for most of a software engineer's day to day there really is no unquestionable upside.

I'll quit before I go back full time. I've never been happier or more fulfilled with my work/life balance, and I've never been more productive with my time. I'll even take a different remote position at a 20% pay cut and a reduction in equity, at least, to retain WFH. Most I'm willing to give is a day a week in office, and maybe temporarily longer in rare circumstances where the benefit in performance is clear.

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@idonotknowwhy 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good. This is a great way to tackle climate change.

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@mupuff1234 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

You might agree or disagree with RTO but at least they aren't bending the rules for execs.

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@jefftk 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Every time there's a news story about someone at a big company with the title "Director", headlines phrase it as if it's a much higher title than it actually is. Apple surely has many Director-level people working in ML.

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@fortran77 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

We wish him well. People leave jobs all the time.

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@ryanSrich 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Good. There needs to be more of this. Forced commute is a horrendous work-lifestyle to maintain.

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@subpixel 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I told Apple I wasn’t interested in interviewing for a non-remote role based on their NYC office.

I’m not an engineer who can work anywhere I want. And I’m confident that working at Apple would have an incredible positive effect on my career.

Still not worth it. I’d rather find a local job outside of tech than get back on the office space hamster wheel.

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@Simon_O_Rourke 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

The whole reckoning behind this is not organizational but aesthetic. How does it look if Apple spend a billion bucks on an office, and it's half empty because Bob from Oakland prefers spending his working day at home in a bathrobe and slippers.

The work, more than likely, gets done just the same, but it's all about appearances.

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@mmmmkay 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I recently left Amazon for a fully remote position and that was my sole decision making factor.

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@kkfx 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

There are few points I do not see much discussed so far:

- remote work, for jobs eligible to such model, does need a paradigm shift, it's not sustainable trying mimicking the in-office model in a "virtual" world. I see almost no discussion about that, especially in work division, outcome measuring, hw&sw vs hosted platforms etc terms. IMVHO that's a hyper central point to mainstream WFH for all eligible jobs;

- remote work administrative aspects from beyond-borders (different tax systems, rules, TZs, ...) and "global wages" vs "local wages". Again that's HYPER important because before arriving to something established and well-run on scale enough to stabilize a new model we must expect tremendous backfires in revenues terms;

- hybrid mess handling where companies have offices, with gears etc and have to move stuff back&forth AS WORKERS to handle less people, but still some, in the office and some from remote;

- where to live, considering local services since we do not eat from remote do not have "virtual remote connections" etc, and how such areas can evolve in a reasonably short and mean timeframe because if we choose to relocate we choose typically with a certain care. Personally I choose few years before covid to leave a big city for a mountain area, served enough, near enough to the "civility" etc, I'm VERY happy of the choice even if I miss a significant slice of local in-person acculturated environment for discussions, interactions, surely social life is better here, but at a low cultural level, just parties, not much real technical, political, philosophical discussions aside are possible since simply there aren't enough mass of acculturated people nearby to do them. That's another central aspect: how can our demography can evolve if we are not all together at scale like before?

- how a remote-first society can be organized, at least a general idea.

Just see sabre rattling and crushing between two party, one for one against, is spectacle, but of no help.

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@humanistbot 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Is there anything HNers feel more passionately about than remote work?

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@alexnewman 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Seems win/win

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@dmitrygr 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Not terribly surprising. While other companies realized that they will lose this fight, Apple dug in their heels. While some provided flexibility and retained talent, Apple decided that the last two years never happened and that the talent that will walk as a result of this idiocy is expendable. The results will speak for themselves in the coming months.

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@gcheong 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

All I know is that the reasons people give that they are leaving and the actual reasons can vary. This might be just as much about the state of Apple’s ML division as anything wfh related.

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@tech-sucker 12 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I would say it is really a good decision, keeping in mind how Amazon and other big techs are almost 100% remote

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@JackFr 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

It’s really hard to believe that Apple management is willing to act against their own interest.

Is it worth considering that the self-reported productivity gains which dominate these comments are not objective and are colored by employees acting in their own interest? That maybe Apple managers know what they’re doing?

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@atty 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I get people who want to work from home. I get people who want to work from the office. I get people who want to do hybrid. The one group of people I don’t get are the ones who suggest people should be forced to work from the office, and not able to decide for themselves. (Obviously it depends on the role - if you’re doing hardware design you need to go in sometimes, of course.)

I see some people in the macrumors comments saying “good riddance” like he’s being ungrateful or something. He’s a manager who’s standing up for what he believes is best for his team, and when he was overruled he did the only thing he could do to protest - quit. Good for him, and hopefully others follow suite. And as someone who works in the same field, he is absolutely right. ML teams right now are absolutely starved for good talent. Apple should be doing everything it can to hire and retain these people, including letting them live where they want.

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@ThrowITout4321 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I doubt that he quit just because he was forced to go back to the office. He was probably unhappy there for multiple reasons. Keep in mind that he can get a job anywhere and probably will get better pay if he even needs to work ever again. So quitting is not a big deal for him. So keep that in mind to anyone thinking they can do the same.

It also speaks to the fact that no one is irreplaceable.

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@gorgoiler 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

If you are part of a team that can be productive, remotely, then you are very lucky.

I am not. We are in trouble as a tech business and have a very large piece of tech debt that we need to get over, this year. (We also have an amazing product and smart people invested in our growth. It’s one of those good problems to have, but it’s still a problem.)

We experimented (a long time ago, before I joined) with an “open source model” of siloed teams who made internal releases to each other. This had the unfortunate side effect of hampering our release process and also, far worse, embedding a really unproductive them-vs-us culture that holds back our ability to ship on time.

On a technical level, it’s kind of like the bad old days of when people all had their own branches, and all tried to merge at once in the week of the release. If you’re familiar with this anti-pattern then we are in a similar situation but with individual repositories instead of branches.

Our team has a lot of veterans, many with the title architect, and all of whom are emotionally invested in the status quo being the right approach. There’s a lot of friction between us. Frankly this might not be the right team for me in the long run, but there are so many awesome people here as well that I want to make it work.

We objectively have a problem shipping our product, and because most of the old guard work remotely it is nigh on impossible to effectively build consensus around making any kind of big change. It is very a hard ship sail.

The saving grace? My manager and I go in three days a week. So does our VP Eng and the manager and tech lead of a couple of other important teams. We have whiteboard diagrams, 1:1 walks in the park, and chats in the kitchen. When we meet with the old guard, we sit together in a meeting room while they are on individual calls. I feel like we are getting somewhere, slowly, but an unsettling amount of time has been spent on how to effectively do staff-level persuasive tech-leadership, in the face of a highly talented but highly conservative cadre of senior engineers who keep themselves at arm’s length over Zoom.

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@mbrodersen 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Companies that are not WFH flexible will be less competitive in the jobs market. It’s that simple.

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@awinter-py 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

even pre-pan, johny srouji wouldn't let the silicon team move into the open plan UFO and built them a trailer or something in the parking lot

(per this https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/09/apple-park-employees-op...)

guessing goodfellow has specific reasons for this move (like everyone), but feels increasingly like wfh has exposed gaps in our ability to manage or even measure the productivity of knowledge workers

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@briandear 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I left Apple for the same reason. Director level folks get the headlines, but there are a lot of lower level folks doing the same thing.

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@rrggrr 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

WFH is screwing young workers by eliminating the mentorship, learning by osmosis and relationship-building that has propelled many knowledge-based careers. If Goodfellow were truly a good fellow, he would recognize the higher purpose.

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@buzzert 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I can’t help but notice the timing of this. ML is starting to fizzle out as a “savior” of the industry after lofty promises were never fulfilled.

Goodfellow was hired right at the peak of ML hype, so I have to assume his salary/total compensation was extraordinarily high, so he was very expensive to keep around.

Apple would’ve made an exemption for exceptional talent. They didn’t make the exception for him.

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@beefman 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Two years ago, articles and comments here were flagged and downvoted for suggesting that WFH might become permanent.

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@Overtonwindow 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

That's unfortunate but there's thousands of equally qualified people who will gladly will their spot, and come into the office.

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@KKKKkkkk1 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

There are many reasons why someone might resign four years after joining. [Hint: RSU grants vest over 4 years.]

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@th0ma5 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

Ventilation ?

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@egl2021 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

If companies can figure out how to use a mostly remote workforce effectively, they can hire anywhere in the world with good Internet. They would no longer need to put an office where there are plenty of qualified workers; they could hire one-at-a-time without regard to geography. And if time zones are a problem, hire north-south rather than east-west. Rio de Janeiro, for example, is only one hour later than New York City.

Over the short term there are arbitrage opportunities for tech workers moving out of high-cost and high-pay regions, but the equilibrium could be quite different.

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@jksmith 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

I don't know about Apple, but I do have a ton of experience consulting for multiple F500's. Many at these companies who want people to come back to work are just middle managers who find it harder to justify their jobs since remote work has become so prevalent. They simply can't grasp how work can get done without them telling people what to do. And of course the easiest way to do that without requiring much thought is to see their underlings in person.

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@mickotron 14 days

Replying to @carlycue 🎙

This is the way. Go somewhere that allows you the flexibility you need.

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