Hacker News Re-Imagined

Schroedinger's streaming service just died

  • 257 points
  • 13 days ago

  • @samizdis
  • Created a post

Schroedinger's streaming service just died


@8bitsrule 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Good news about the Four Tet decision. He's been a consistently high-quality, highly-innovative EM creator for over 20 years. Hopefully getting 50% of the streaming and download take instead of 13% will rock that industry.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-61871547

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@BLKNSLVR 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Could I sell my bandcamp account?

The irony of this is that bandcamp seems to be a far more direct-to-the-artist model than any streaming service (which is why I use it), because it (it's hard to avoid puns here) records which albums I've purchased so that I can listen to them via the app / website or download lossless copies of said albums for my own curated library and to be able to listen to offline. This, however, gives my account a certain value as to the content accessible through it, and therefore my account has some resale value* - but this resale pays nothing to the artist or label or bandcamp; it's much more like a physical item (other than that if bandcamp goes under then it's lost, or if bandcamp don't like their accounts being re-sold it could get terminated due to breach of terms of service or something like that).

* my musical taste means that this resale value is very low and it would be difficult to find a purchaser, but that's beside the point.

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@skybrian 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Here's the news story without the editorializing. Maybe change the link?

Four Tet wins royalty battle over streaming music https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-61871547

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@googlryas 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Is this just wordplay? When you click "Buy now", are you just buying a license?

Is "ownership" just a byproduct of physical goods? If I say I own a record, the proof is basically in the pudding. But how do I prove I own an MP3 file? I'd probably need to do something like show a receipt for it. But then again, what if I have shown that receipt to 100 people I've sold "my" copy of the MP3 file to? With physical reality, exact duplication is difficult, and is already covered under those existing laws.

It seems like computing was big on licensing, even when tech was nascent and there wasn't clearly reams of money to be made in it, there must be a reason for it.

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@sailfast 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

TIL Record Labels were double dealing the license vs. purchase royalties. That's really sad, and I'm glad somebody finally made some case law out of this that will benefit artists moving forward.

EDIT: I forgot it was settled out of court so it's not "case law" but definitely tells record labels that they will probably lose in the future. They must owe billions...

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@underlines 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

personal anectode: I'm born in 1986 and had internet since 1998. Immediately got into contact with IRC's XDCC file-sharing and Usenet bin groups. Never paid for music, started burning CDs in 1999 and owned the first commercial MP3 player. Only when Spotify came around, I started to pay for music out of lazyness to further take care of my HDD sized, tediously managed and tagged MP3 (and later M4A) library.

So at least for a large part of my life, that crazy industry didn't get a dime from me. Reading about their practices now makes me feel even less sorry.

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@lxe 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

I can't believe how long this battle has been going on. It's been decades since the whole music industry reshuffle, and both artists and consumers continue to get shafted.

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@jonplackett 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

> eat its cake and have it, too

Someone been watching Manhunt

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@ghostly_s 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Except as noted in the linked BBC coverage, Four Tet's case was settled out of court (because he could not afford to fight it) and thus establishes no legal precedent for other artists to leverage.

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@mbfg 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

in another world, it is still alive.

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@Waterluvian 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

“but at least it's a law, created by a democratically accountable legislature.”

I feel like we need to stop lying to ourselves like this.

Copyright is getting ridiculously out of hand because lobbyists hold the power and the system is not really accountable anymore.

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@deltaonefour 12 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

>Schroedinger's streaming service just died

It's both alive and dead at the same time. Like the cat.

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@CyborgCabbage 12 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

More and more I feel copyright just doesn't make any sense in the digital age. Software engineers have already cottoned on and started doing open source, I hope we see a similar movement for art and media.

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@mosfetarium 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

I feel like this issue is brought on by the fact that it seems like copyright law hasn't been properly reexamined for the modern era. I support the notion that the ideal model is people pay the rightsholder in order to enjoy the media, and offering resale of pure-digital media instead leads to some weird "You make money based on the peak simultaneous number of owners, rather than the number of people who consumed it", which just doesn't make any sense to me as an economic model.

So yeah, you see labels calling the user purchase one thing, in order to make it line up with the intent of the consumer relationship, then on the royalties they call it a different thing to make it line-up with that intent. I don't feel the publishers are violating the intent of these relationships at all, it's just that copyright law being extremely out of date requires stupid language games. The correct solution is to re-examine copyright law to either establish that the intent is you pay the rightsholder to get access for you as a distinct individual, or that the intent is that you are purchasing resalable access, and be done with this nonsense.

I absolutely don't blame artists for trying though, the labels screw them so it seems fair that they should try to screw the labels.

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@jjmorrison 12 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

Did it tho?

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@shtolcers 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

..Or did it?

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@Closi 13 days

Replying to @samizdis 🎙

> The confiscation of your rights to your digital media depends on the fiction that you are licensing the music, not buying it. The fact that there's a giant "buy now" button on the interface notwithstanding, tech and entertainment companies maintain that you are engaged in a licensing deal, like an advertiser buying synch rights for a hamburger commercial.

This post makes everything seem needlessly complicated - you are buying a licence, there is no contradiction here.

How else would digital media / sale of MP3's work without licences? Is the author suggesting that everyone should legally be able to freely transfer/distribute their MP3's to anyone with no legal limit?

I don't see any alternative to licences mentioned anywhere in the post - just lots of handwaving about some sort of wave function collapse (where wave function collapse just means a contract that has different terms for a digital purchase instead of a physical purchase).

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